Neumann KH 150 Monitor Review

[Abaxial]

Yes, and that's the reason why KH 150 sounds dead dull off-axis in proper acoustics.
Some statistics related to slope of directivity index.
View attachment 251084

I'm interested in these monitors for a home studio, but one that's large enough (22 x 12 x 10) to where I could aspire towards either a) having clients over or b) Dolby Atmos, both of which I imagine would benefit from having a larger sweet spot. Is this high directivity going to be a limitation? They seem nearly perfect otherwise...

 

[enricoclaudio]

I don't know how anybody looking for a good sounding speaker would not like the KH150s. I literally love them and I have ZERO regrets going with them instead with the Genelec's 8341s which were my top 1 on the list. My only recommendation for those getting the Neumann KH150s, is to get a miniDSP FLEX TRS instead of the MA1 mic as the MA1 app is too buggy. In fact, I had to get a beta version from Neumann for the app to run in my Mac Studio running macOS Ventura. Dirac Live is just miles ahead of MA1 software. Not to mention that you can use the FLEX for other things like multiple subwoofers setup or use a non Neumann subwoofer with the KH150s. BTW, the MA1 mic is already on the way back to Sweetwater.

 

[Henridesmetal]

What is the price difference between the two?

In terms of price, I was lucky to have the 8350a and KH150 at a good price: I paid €3200 for a new pair of 8350a (€1600 each), in MusiX shop, at the instead of around 4000€ per pair in my country (in France).
And the KH150 was also a bargain because I got them for €2,558 a pair (in Stars Music),€1,279 each, instead of the usual €3,200 a pair. Now the price return to €3200.

 

[Pritaudio]

$349 for dirac live license is excessive.

 

[enricoclaudio]

$349 for dirac live license is excessive.

Dirac Live license for miniDSP FLEX is $199, not $349. MA1 mic is $300 which you need in order to use MA1 software.

 

[Scielienta]

I had a chance to listen KH150 for about 20 minutes and compared with my 8340. I am pretty impressed by the sound, especially both male\female vocals, but I still prefer my 8340 due to more wider and airy sound. Also top frequencies have better clarity. KH150 sound a bit dark and congested when I compare with the 8340. Maybe need some time to adjust my ears. Also MDF and plastic combination doesn't look and feel cheap, contrary solid and robust but still prefer die cast Genelec without a doubt.

 

[Pearljam5000]

I had a chance to listen KH150 for about 20 minutes and compared with my 8340. I am pretty impressed by the sound, especially both male\female vocals, but I still prefer my 8340 due to more wider and airy sound. Also top frequencies have better clarity. KH150 sound a bit dark and congested when I compare with 8340 but sound is pretty awesome. and maybe need some time to adsjut my ears. Also MDF and plastic combantion doesn't look and feel cheap, contrary solid and robust. But still prefer die cast Genelec for sure.

My KH120 were a bit dark too
That's why i sold them

 

[Pritaudio]

If your comparing a system with subs, then the genelec 7350 is 8 inch and the kh750 10 inch.
the 10 inch genelec 7360 is even more expensive.

 

[Pritaudio]

My KH120 were a bit dark too
That's why i sold them

Why didn’t you eq them.

 

[Pritaudio]

I don't know how anybody looking for a good sounding speaker would not like the KH150s. I literally love them and I have ZERO regrets going with them instead with the Genelec's 8341s which were my top 1 on the list. My only recommendation for those getting the Neumann KH150s, is to get a miniDSP FLEX TRS instead of the MA1 mic as the MA1 app is too buggy. In fact, I had to get a beta version from Neumann for the app to run in my Mac Studio running macOS Ventura. Dirac Live is just miles ahead of MA1 software. Not to mention that you can use the FLEX for other things like multiple subwoofers setup or use a non Neumann subwoofer with the KH150s. BTW, the MA1 mic is already on the way back to Sweetwater.

Did you hear the 8341 in comparison to kh150.

 

[fuzzychaos]

Hi Veerk, I had the same hesitation as you, I ordered the KH150 and the 8350a to compare them. They were on my desk at a listening distance of 80cm in an untreated 10m² room. I preferred the Genelec, it has a little more ease in the bass and I found the sound more "airy" and pleasant to listen to. But the KH150 is excellent, I'm sure if I hadn't had both at the same time it would have suited me. But for listening pleasure as I do with my listening conditions the 8350a is sublime. So I kept the 8350s and returned the KH150s.
I haven't listened to the 8340, but I guess it has the same sound signature as the 8350, with maybe a little less bas
After that is only my opinion, influenced by my listening conditions. Other people may feel differently of course

That’s me. One person’s “airy” is another person’s “harsh”. I tried the 8340a and found the treble too harsh for me, the KH 150 was just right. The bass on the KH 150 was also better, in my opinion. After Dirac compensation, I find them pretty much perfect. The 8350a was not on my radar, it was too big for my application and I figured the treble was the same, and I didn’t care for it.

 

[enricoclaudio]

Did you hear the 8341 in comparison to kh150.

I personally own 8331s in my work office and I have had listened to the 8341s and 8351s and also old Genelecs.

 

[Blockader]

Why didn’t you eq them.

because EQing speakers above the room transition frequency(x3 above of it~) is not a good idea.

 

[Rednaxela]

Disagree in the context of @Pritaudio ’s question.

 

[AudioJester]

Disagree in the context of @Pritaudio ’s question.

Curious at to what eq strategy would be used for "dark sounding".
The kh120 is pretty flat, unless there was a particular room issue, or @Pearljam5000 is more used to an old schoool b&w type sound?

 

[DevinCortno]

Curious at to what eq strategy would be used for "dark sounding".
The kh120 is pretty flat, unless there was a particular room issue, or @Pearljam5000 is more used to an old schoool b&w type sound?

I find them dark too, and not similar in tonality to the KH 80, 150 or 310 all of which I find better balanced

predicted in-room measurement of KH 120s from this forum. bump in the lows, very drastic tilt

 

[staticV3]

very drastic tilt

Looks like .8dB/Oct with two dips at 2 and 5k:

That's really not that drastic. Revel F208 and 8341A have like .7dB/Oct. Basically the same.
But yeah I bet it sounds slightly dull without correcting those dips.

 

[gino1961]

Can't wait to see the Pref scores. I do wonder if they're still using peerless woofer. If that's the case then we know peerless must REALLY know their drivers!

anyone who has more information about the woofer (i.e. brand and model no.) ? because the dsp can flatten the response maybe but for sure can do nothing for the distortion
The very low distortion should be a quality of the actual driver used If i am wrong please tell me
thanks a lot for the extremely interesting review and discussion

 

[Blockader]

I find them dark too, and not similar in tonality to the KH 80, 150 or 310 all of which I find better balanced

predicted in-room measurement of KH 120s from this forum. bump in the lows, very drastic tilt

estimated in room response is a far field prediction. You won't be listening to KH 150's from far field.

-While sitting very close to speakers(*close* in this context depends on speakers and how the drivers sum up), 2 factors determine the tonality & tonal balance:

Sum of early reflections PLUS direct sound.

As you get farther from speakers, sound power response of speakers start influencing tonal balance more and more. That's why Estimated in room response consists of
44% direct sound, 44% early reflections, 12% sound power. Estimated in room responses do not give much idea about how nearfield speakers perform unless you'll be sitting very far to speakers which is not what they are designed for! (and the magnitude of how much sound power influences the tonal balance depends on listeners distance to speakers, that 12% is going to be higher if you are sitting in a completely reverberant field where direct sound can't have an influence)

-To wrap up, if you are sitting in a reverberant field(far from speakers),

Sum of early reflections PLUS sound power PLUS direct sound determine tonal balance.

Depending on your distance to speakers the influence of sound power in perceived tonal balance changes. Far field estimation is basically a very rough estimation of how speakers should sound from afar.

I see people keep checking far field responses of nearfield speakers which they listened from nearfield. That is so pointless.

So why do Neumann speakers -usually- sound darker?

Because their Early reflections Directivity Index and Sound power Directivity Index is higher than Genelec speakers. Remember, we hear a combination of reflections and direct sound. And how reflections are formed inside a room can be predicted based on the directivity of speakers.
For example:

Even if we EQ KH 420's on-axis to 8361's on-axis response, 8361's will always sound a bit brighter than Neumann KH 420,s because their directivity index in higher frequencies is lower overall.

 

[teashea]

estimated in room response is a far field prediction. You won't be listening to KH 150's from far field.

-While sitting very close to speakers(*close* in this context depends on speakers and how the drivers sum up), 2 factors determine the tonality & tonal balance:

Sum of early reflections PLUS direct sound.

As you get farther from speakers, sound power response of speakers start influencing tonal balance more and more. That's why Estimated in room response consists of
44% direct sound, 44% early reflections, 12% sound power. Estimated in room responses do not give much idea about how nearfield speakers perform unless you'll be sitting very far to speakers which is not what they are designed for! (and the magnitude of how much sound power influences the tonal balance depends on listeners distance to speakers, that 12% is going to be higher if you are sitting in a completely reverberant field where direct sound can't have an influence)

-To wrap up, if you are sitting in a reverberant field(far from speakers),

Sum of early reflections PLUS sound power PLUS direct sound determine tonal balance.

Depending on your distance to speakers the influence of sound power in perceived tonal balance changes. Far field estimation is basically a very rough estimation of how speakers should sound from afar.

I see people keep checking far field responses of nearfield speakers which they listened from nearfield. That is so pointless.

So why do Neumann speakers -usually- sound darker?

Because their Early reflections Directivity Index and Sound power Directivity Index is higher than Genelec speakers. Remember, we hear a combination of reflections and direct sound. And how reflections are formed inside a room can be predicted based on the directivity of speakers.
For example:

View attachment 254052

Even if we EQ KH 420's on-axis to 8361's on-axis response, 8361's will always sound a bit brighter than Neumann KH 420,s because their directivity index in higher frequencies is lower overall.

Excellent analysis.

I have a pair of KH 310's and a pair of 120's with a 750. I use them for mixing and mastering, so I want speakers that sound very colorless and flat. I want them to tell me as closely as possible what the music actually is. I belive that they do this better than other speakers I have used or listened to.

I am also ordering a pair of KH150's in two days. The reviews, espeically S&R's and Admir's, indicate that they should be even better. Like my other monitors, I will be listening to them in the nearfield - 1.2 meters.

People have different preferences and the reported brightness of 8361's not what I want ----- but I have not heard them.