Neumann KH 150 Monitor Review

[IamJF]

Ah - the smoothing messed with the measurements. Looks good now for me!
And it's always great to see proper measurements - these "estimations" from some of the programms are pretty ... "well-meaning".

The target curve is still very interesting, I will try this when I find time.
Just checked my Dirac curve - I use -3dB from 1kHz to 20kHz but add a +6dB bass rise for some home cinema fun. With my monitoring setup I'm linear with high frequencies and have a 3-4dB bass boost - but close listening distance. That gives the best translation for mixing in my room.

 

[dsnyder0cnn]

The target curve is still very interesting, I will try this when I find time.

Here's an old interview with Bob Katz where he describes his room (at the time) and this target curve. Start watching at about 9:00 minutes in for the room description or 13:00 in for the target curve discussion.

Home Theater Geeks: Bob Katz on Audio | TWiT.TV

Scott Wilkinson talks with Recording and Mastering Engineer Bob Katz about some of his recent projects and the high res mafia.

twit.tv

It makes sense to me that for your nearfield monitoring use case, there's no need for a downward sloping response above 1 kHz. I'm sure your KH 120 MkII monitors are also amazing to work with. I'm really looking forward to seeing what Neumann does for the new KH 310 Mk II, rumored to be out later this year.

 

[Staki]

I was curious about the same thing myself and am currently waiting on a couple of coax cables. I hope I'll be able to test later this week. I am using MiniDSP SHD instead of MA1 for eq/Dirac and to integrate a non-Neumann subwoofer. MiniDSP uses 96 kHz internally and to the best of my knowledge, this is not configurable. We will see how KH 150 will deal with it. Will report the results. Realistically, I don't expect to be able to hear any difference, but we'll see.

This weekend I tested the setup. After some software upgrades and settings changes, I settled on the following configuration: Input Select switch on the backplate was set to analog, but in MA1, I configured S/PDIF as input on both speakers. S/PDIF cabling was minidsp digital out 1&2 -- right speaker digital input and right speaker digital output -- left speaker digital input. The tests I've done consisted of playing a sequence of music, then flipping the control switch on the backplate from network to local and repeating. This was all uncontrolled, sighted etc. You can see that I had a bit of a negative bias going into the test and indeed none of the samples I played could reveal any difference. Also volume in both configurations was identical subjectively. However, and this was interesting, after longer listening on digital cabling, I could not shake off the feeling that I am somehow hearing more details and that imaging is more precise etc. As soon as I would try to test the theory even using sighted A/B testing, this illusion would disappear. I am certain that this is simply the result of "listening more carefully" and being aware that the signal path is now "more direct".

Sadly I developed some acute back pain and could not perform any measurements. That will have to wait another couple of weeks.

 

[IamJF]

Reminds me to my listening tests with Hypex digital/analog input. There where only a few titles where I think I could hear a dedicated difference - one was orchester with a single snare in the background. Also had the impression there are more details, a little more natural of the snare wires and the reverb in the large hall of the recording.
But when possible I chose the digital input to avoid the additional conversions and have lowest noise of the system.

 

[dsnyder0cnn]

I could not shake off the feeling that I am somehow hearing more details and that imaging is more precise etc. As soon as I would try to test the theory even using sighted A/B testing, this illusion would disappear. I am certain that this is simply the result of "listening more carefully" and being aware that the signal path is now "more direct".

Sorry to hear about your back pain, but thanks for sharing your impressions. I seriously doubt anything interesting will show up in measurements anyway since I expect the amplitude and time-domain response of Neumann's analog to digital conversion to be ruler flat and beyond reproach. My longer S/PDIF cables arrive tomorrow, so I hope to give this a try later this week...weekend worst case. I have an iFi Audio ZEN Stream that should work nicely for this task. If going digital works to my satisfaction, I may be able to completely remove the component rack from my listening room. Doing so will almost certainly have a bigger impact on the sound that switching from XLR to S/PDIF on these monitors. :-D

 

[dsnyder0cnn]

My new long COAX S/PDIF cables came in yesterday, so I spent a couple of hours listening via the digital inputs on the KH 150. I used an old iFi Audio ZEN Stream as a streaming transport via Roon. I had to enable "Software" for "Mixer Type" under Volume Options for the ZEN Stream to enable Roon's volume control. As far as I can tell, iFi's implementation uses Roon's "DSP Volume" feature on the endpoint. Roon's SDK, volume calculations are performed with 64-bits of precision with dithering to 24-bits, which is perfectly fine.

At first, I thought things sounded a little grainy, so I configured Roon to resample all formats to 24-bits, 48 kHz. Not sure if that actually made a difference, but my sighted brain was happier with the sound.

After doing all of that, things sounded amazing. Compared to the analog inputs (from my Gustard X18 DAC and Topping Pre90 preamp), I felt like this digital signal-path had a little less "air" and a slightly smaller soundstage, but everything else sounds as good or better (mostly better). Could just be my ears and mood though. I'll spend the next two weeks listening exclusively via the digital input. After that, I'll switch back to the analog inputs to see if anything goes missing. I may also try taking some measurements, but I seriously doubt I'll see anything different in REW plots.

For folks who enjoy collecting music in fancy audio formats, converting everything to 48 kHz may feel a little disconcerting, but I don't think anyone who has tried the setup I've described will find anything to complain about the sound quality!

 

[VariousArtists]

Well, after around 1 years and 4 months, one of my KH150 is dead... I guess I'm just super unlucky but this is still very annoying.

Not sure what happened, yesterday everything was fine but tonight it can't be switched on. I checked that it's not an issue with the power cord, so it's probably something inside the speaker that's dead.

I've contacted my dealer and waiting to hear back.

Edit: it's working again literally after I finished typing this, so strange! I turned it off and on repeatedly many times and it didn't work, I did it again just now and it worked. I didn't touch anything other than the power button, and I never had a loose connection issue, but if it's not this, what else could it be?

 

[dsnyder0cnn]

it's working again literally after I finished typing this

That's disconcerting. I'll let you know if I experience the same behavior with mine. At one point, I thought I was having trouble with one of the two not "waking up" when I sent a signal. I later discovered that I was only sending a test tone (REW level calibration signal) to one of the two channels. The monitor came on once I sent a signal to it.

 

[VariousArtists]

I later discovered that I was only sending a test tone (REW level calibration signal) to one of the two channels. The monitor came on once I sent a signal to it.

I thought that might be the case with mine too (or something wrong with the signal detection on one), but it didn't switch on when I physically flipped the power button off and on, which should always get the speaker out of standby.

 

[dsnyder0cnn]

I thought that might be the case with mine too (or something wrong with the signal detection on one), but it didn't switch on when I physically flipped the power button off and on, which should always get the speaker out of standby.

Hopefully, something a future firmware will solve...

 

[Berlin]

Well, after around 1 years and 4 months, one of my KH150 is dead... I guess I'm just super unlucky but this is still very annoying.

Not sure what happened, yesterday everything was fine but tonight it can't be switched on. I checked that it's not an issue with the power cord, so it's probably something inside the speaker that's dead.

I've contacted my dealer and waiting to hear back.

Edit: it's working again literally after I finished typing this, so strange! I turned it off and on repeatedly many times and it didn't work, I did it again just now and it worked. I didn't touch anything other than the power button, and I never had a loose connection issue, but if it's not this, what else could it be?

Same here. I think that this behavior is associated with the speakers‘ „wake up when music is played“ functionality. It doesn’t work reliably in my set-up and let exactly to the issue that you described…

 

[muchacho]

Just a "check question": does the MA-1 room alignment remain stored in the DSP after a firmware update and a subsequent reboot, or does a new measurement have to be performed?

 

[HIFIBOY]

Same here. I think that this behavior is associated with the speakers‘ „wake up when music is played“ functionality. It doesn’t work reliably in my set-up and let exactly to the issue that you described…

I encountered this issue a few months ago, and the latest firmware description says that the issue is fixed and that you can try upgrading the firmware to the latest version.

 

[dsnyder0cnn]

I was able to upgrade the firmware on my KH 150 monitors from 1.0.0 to 1.1.11. The process was not super smooth, but it worked. The software was unable to detect when each monitor successfully "rebooted" after the update. I waited a couple of minutes for this message to show up each time before manually power-cycling each one.

After the firmware update, I'm able to control the brightness of the logo on the front of the speakers, but changes do not stick if I switch them back to "Local" control mode.

I'm rather disappointed that there's no way to adjust monitor setting over the network using this app. The manual suggests that these settings should be manageable over the network when the Control switch is set to Network:

• Acoustic Controls (Bass, Low-Mid, High)
• Output Level (114 dB, 108 dB, 100 dB, 94 dB)
• Input Gain (-15 dB to 0 dB)
• Input Select (Analog, S/PDIF L, S/PDIF R, Mono)

However, this does not seem to be the case. At least not with version 2.3.1.1818 of the MA 1 alignment software. There is a link on ths software to "Send backplate setting"; however, from what I can tell, it does the opposite. It reads the backplate settings on the speakers into the software. I imagine so that those settings may be accounted for somehow during the alignment process (which I've not tried yet).

According to the manual, when control is in network-mode, the backplate controls marked with * are no longer active. If that's the case and there's no way to adjust these settings using software, what does that mean? The manual says, "For advanced configuration and control of the KH 120 II and KH 150 via a network, use the MA 1 - Automatic Monitor Alignment software". That's what I'm using, but with little success besides the firmware update and logo brightness control.

Is anyone else here having better luck?

 

[HIFIBOY]

I was able to upgrade the firmware on my KH 150 monitors from 1.0.0 to 1.1.11. The process was not super smooth, but it worked. The software was unable to detect when each monitor successfully "rebooted" after the update. I waited a couple of minutes for this message to show up each time before manually power-cycling each one.

View attachment 373982

After the firmware update, I'm able to control the brightness of the logo on the front of the speakers, but changes do not stick if I switch them back to "Local" control mode.

View attachment 373983

I'm rather disappointed that there's no way to adjust monitor setting over the network using this app. The manual suggests that these settings should be manageable over the network when the Control switch is set to Network:

• Acoustic Controls (Bass, Low-Mid, High)
• Output Level (114 dB, 108 dB, 100 dB, 94 dB)
• Input Gain (-15 dB to 0 dB)
• Input Select (Analog, S/PDIF L, S/PDIF R, Mono)

However, this does not seem to be the case. At least not with version 2.3.1.1818 of the MA 1 alignment software. There is a link on ths software to "Send backplate setting"; however, from what I can tell, it does the opposite. It reads the backplate settings on the speakers into the software. I imagine so that those settings may be accounted for somehow during the alignment process (which I've not tried yet).

According to the manual, when control is in network-mode, the backplate controls marked with * are no longer active. If that's the case and there's no way to adjust these settings using software, what does that mean? The manual says, "For advanced configuration and control of the KH 120 II and KH 150 via a network, use the MA 1 - Automatic Monitor Alignment software". That's what I'm using, but with little success besides the firmware update and logo brightness control.

Is anyone else here having better luck?

Using the Ma1 calibration software is an extremely painful process and has been so for years because it always has a lot of new problems.

 

[DJBonoBobo]

I was able to upgrade the firmware on my KH 150 monitors from 1.0.0 to 1.1.11. The process was not super smooth, but it worked. The software was unable to detect when each monitor successfully "rebooted" after the update. I waited a couple of minutes for this message to show up each time before manually power-cycling each one.

View attachment 373982

After the firmware update, I'm able to control the brightness of the logo on the front of the speakers, but changes do not stick if I switch them back to "Local" control mode.

View attachment 373983

I'm rather disappointed that there's no way to adjust monitor setting over the network using this app. The manual suggests that these settings should be manageable over the network when the Control switch is set to Network:

• Acoustic Controls (Bass, Low-Mid, High)
• Output Level (114 dB, 108 dB, 100 dB, 94 dB)
• Input Gain (-15 dB to 0 dB)
• Input Select (Analog, S/PDIF L, S/PDIF R, Mono)

However, this does not seem to be the case. At least not with version 2.3.1.1818 of the MA 1 alignment software. There is a link on ths software to "Send backplate setting"; however, from what I can tell, it does the opposite. It reads the backplate settings on the speakers into the software. I imagine so that those settings may be accounted for somehow during the alignment process (which I've not tried yet).

According to the manual, when control is in network-mode, the backplate controls marked with * are no longer active. If that's the case and there's no way to adjust these settings using software, what does that mean? The manual says, "For advanced configuration and control of the KH 120 II and KH 150 via a network, use the MA 1 - Automatic Monitor Alignment software". That's what I'm using, but with little success besides the firmware update and logo brightness control.

Is anyone else here having better luck?

I agree it is disappointing they don't provide a simple software managing the DSP and settings. The ipad app did that nicely for the KH80 and 750, but they have abandoned it. There is an open source python software for this, but i did not try it, because it looked complicated to me.
The MA1 software works best after calibrating the system with the MA1 microphone. If you have the KH150, it is most recommended anyway. You can set volume and adjust the calibration curve to taste, if you want.

 

[Staki]

I'm rather disappointed that there's no way to adjust monitor setting over the network using this app. The manual suggests that these settings should be manageable over the network when the Control switch is set to Network:

• Acoustic Controls (Bass, Low-Mid, High)
• Output Level (114 dB, 108 dB, 100 dB, 94 dB)
• Input Gain (-15 dB to 0 dB)
• Input Select (Analog, S/PDIF L, S/PDIF R, Mono)

However, this does not seem to be the case. At least not with version 2.3.1.1818 of the MA 1 alignment software. There is a link on ths software to "Send backplate setting"; however, from what I can tell, it does the opposite. It reads the backplate settings on the speakers into the software. I imagine so that those settings may be accounted for somehow during the alignment process (which I've not tried yet).

According to the manual, when control is in network-mode, the backplate controls marked with * are no longer active. If that's the case and there's no way to adjust these settings using software, what does that mean? The manual says, "For advanced configuration and control of the KH 120 II and KH 150 via a network, use the MA 1 - Automatic Monitor Alignment software". That's what I'm using, but with little success besides the firmware update and logo brightness control.

Is anyone else here having better luck?

Perhaps output level is the same thing as system level on this screen?

It is possible to select the input using the software, you have to "create a new setup" and then you can select the input connection. I did not find the way to change other settings -- perhaps this is done in the alignment procedure, which I did not go into.

 

[Pritaudio]

How would this compare at 3m to hypex ncx500 or nc502p with a bookshelf speaker of choice (eq added).
Is it still a matter of getting wide dispersion for hifi lounge listening vs just a listening window as required?.

 

[Curvature]

bookshelf speaker of choice

Very few speakers can match the controlled directivity and low distortion of the KH150.

 

[IamJF]

just a listening window

The difference is not THAT big!
You get a little less reflection from the sides but when sitting far in an untreated room (3m counts as far in this case) you mainly hear the room response and no direct signal from the speaker at all.
But yes - these KHs have a very good room response cause of linear off axis behaviour ;-)

And yes - I get better behavior and more details >10kHz from a Hypex amp and a Beryllium dome. But first you have to nail the 40Hz-10kHz with your speaker in the quality of the KH150, cause that's the range where music plays. (which is not inpossible but also not particularly easy)
And then add the 20-40Hz octave for more fun ...