There are some very good manufacturing facilities in China. They can produce extremely good quality - if you ask (and pay) for it.
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Need advice on this Taobao bookshelf speaker
- Thread starter bunkbail
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There are some very good manufacturing facilities in China. They can produce extremely good quality - if you ask (and pay) for it.
OP
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Yeah, Buchardt also use manufacturing in China and they look extremely professional if you ask me.
Here's the pic of @Mads Buchardt 's visit to the factory (speaker model in the pic is S400):
BillG
Major Contributor
Most of my gear - audio, computing and telephony - was manufactured there, and I'm quite happy with it...
Most of my gear - audio, computing and telephony - was manufactured there, and I'm quite happy with it...
Most gear - audio, computing and telephony - is manufactured there.
digicidal
Major Contributor
It does indeed look very nice... of course the S400 runs 6-8 times the price of the speakers in question and is a 2 way design with (I would guess considering the design)
Despite being a smaller bass driver in a sealed cabinet - it is specified as being only +/- 3dB from 33Hz-40kHz in room. I'd love to see some proof of that other than some specifications, but it seems like an amazing speaker even at it's price-point. Most towers have difficulty with those numbers.
The only two receivers that I've had critical failures in the electronics - were both the two made in China (one was a Marantz and one a Denon). Doesn't mean anything really... but all of my other similar DM gear (3 AVRs/2 PrePros) were the "Made in Japan" models and are still 100% after a decade or so. I think the date of production makes more of a difference than anything in that regard. The stuff made in China 20-25 years ago is a far cry from the stuff made there in the past 5-10 years. Now that they've basically cornered the market on manufacturing (esp. electronics) they're often the best. However, the lower-cost, no name stuff and knock-offs commonly marketed through ebay, taobao, etc. are still as dicey as ever IMO - at least the majority is.
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restorer-john
Grand Contributor
That's an unsubstantiated and rather dubious claim. "Often the best" at what exactly?
A race to the bottom perhaps.
Manufacturing. Ask anyone working in sourcing at large companies. China is by far the word leader in manufacturing - and as I wrote, they deliver what you pay for. If you want cheap, you get cheap. If you want quality (and pay for it), you get quality.
Are you old enough to remember the time people looked down at "made in Japan"?
digicidal
Major Contributor
Of course, yours is also an unsubstantiated and rather dubious claim.
Care to show how nothing from China is ever as good?Are all Apple products defective? Not subjectively horrible... are they poorly manufactured? Oppo's stuff? Either of the two Matrix Audio DACs reviewed here and currently at the top of the list for SINAD (regardless of whether or not you see that as a reasonable metric)? Topping/SMSL/Sabaj/etc? Hegel? The internal components of almost everything regardless of where assembly is done is now done in China. Don't get me wrong, as my post indicates - I've gotten bad gear (esp. PC components in the early 2000's) from China... but I've also gotten some very well made products from there as well.
Certainly a lot better experience overall than I've had with American made automobiles - but I also don't take that to mean everything made here is crap. One could argue that the whole planet is currently in "a race to the bottom" - but that doesn't validate a blanket statement either.
IME the only provably and consistently horrible products coming out of China are those from state-owned companies like Chery, and the price-before everything products that are marketed on late night TV. However almost all of those are horrible because the foreign companies they were manufactured for demanded something that looked or functioned like a $50 product be created at a cost of $2.50. You can't blame those situations on the Chinese... that's consumer greed - which is ubiquitous and international.
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Totally agree with this sentiment; if you're going to buy speakers, then buy quality engineering, design and construction. And the good news is that they don't have to cost a fortune; you'll be amazed at what people pawn or donate to second hand charity shops. Look for a good used audio equipment dealer, that way you even have piece of mind as to the functioning and condition of the speakers (that's what I did; Mission 780 monitors, Made in England, exceptional value). If you're willing to do some research and look around, you can find high quality European, North American or Japanese made speakers that can be enjoyed for life.
restorer-john
Grand Contributor
This is Audioscience Review where the main discussion involves High Fidelity audio products. It has been my experience over many decades of selling, repairing and restoring HiFi gear that Chinese products are poorly made. Nothing I have seen in the last 10 years has changed my mind. Fake components, poor construction techniques and often simply inadequate and faulty design.
You can believe what you want and attempt to drag Chery cars, American automobiles and Apple products into the discussion, but the main subject is Chinese speakers and HiFi products. As for Oppo, their DVD players fail, and use one of the arguably cheapest, nastiest laser mechanisms I have ever seen in a so-called "quality product". The bonus is of course, you can buy them for a few dollars on eBay, but I ask you, how many of those unfortunate owners simply e-waste their 5-10 year old machines?
Clearly, the golden years of absolute quality, longevity and repairability along with high performance are long gone, although countries the world over are beginning to legislate for parts, service information and ease of access/dismantling and the consumer's right to repair. It will go full circle, and people will once again value gear that can outlast their children, perform at a high level, be repairable and be reasonably priced.
People have had enough.
https://buymeonce.com/
watchnerd
Grand Contributor
All my watches are mechanical, no batteries.
My ancient iPhone 6S had a cracked screen and degraded battery. Had it repaired and upgraded to a better battery and new screen for $135, labor included.
It felt good to restore what is otherwise a perfectly adequate phone for me (at least until 5G comes out), instead of dumping $1000 on the latest giant size models that won't fit in my jeans pockets.
digicidal
Major Contributor
Your perspective does have a significant amount of selection bias built in to it however. I mean how many perfectly functioning pieces of equipment need to be repaired or restored? The majority of your posts on here discuss the design flaws, failures, etc. of various gear from many different countries. I don't doubt that all the Chinese gear you've dealt with was poorly made, but you've also seen poorly made gear from the US, Australia, Japan, and Europe - correct?
There are poorly made products from everywhere. It only stands to reason that in any product where lowest cost to market is the primary driver, that Chinese manufacturing is often the choice, and likewise that quality will suffer. However, there are many companies - in the Harman Group for example - who chose to build their own factories there, partially due to their burgeoning middle/upper classes, and partially due to the dearth of qualified technical employees in other countries. Just because a facility is located in China, and employs Chinese workers - it does not mean they are using fake component or producing "white van speakers". I agree with you, however, that in the case of the speakers in the OP of this thread - there are some possibly suspect elements and that is exactly what I stated in my original posts.
I am in agreement with some of your sentiment - but I'm not prepared to throw an entire country out with the chaff so to speak. As many of the well reviewed devices on this site demonstrate - it is entirely possible to not just build "adequate" hifi gear in China, but to engineer products which surpass (in an objective sense) the capabilities of the majority of their competition. Regardless of where that competition is manufactured.
On that I completely agree, and I welcome it if it does happen that way. My wife and I often comment to each other that we'd rather have to pay three times as much, and buy half as much stuff - if it meant we could avoid having to replace products with no durability - or worse, those designed to fail just outside their warranty period. That kind of consumer abuse has gone on for far too long, and has infected every single market segment - not just consumer electronics.
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restorer-john
Grand Contributor
Take LED light globes for example. I've been telling everyone I know for years that they are designed to fail prematurely. Forget the silly 20,000+hr lifetimes- that's blatant lies. I've been dismantling them for years and all the failures are in the bridge rectifier (too low spec), the filter cap, the input pigtail soldering etc. The LED arrays themselves are fine, as are most of the SMPS parts.
These arrays are beautiful insulated substrate on aluminium heatsink.
The solution is really clear- make the bulbs and the inverters/power supply separate pieces. With moulded key locks assembly for the various ratings so you can match wattage and supplies without thinking about it. It would drop the prices, the landfill, and help save the planet. It's really sad that perfectly functioning high intensity LED arrays are being thrown away in dead lightbulbs.
OT> My three ceiling fans have glass 'lenses' that makes most alternatives to incandescent lamps too large to fit under them. Halogen bulbs fit but the electronics in the base overheat and fail prematurely - lack of enclosure ventilation. Our supermarkets no longer sell the incandescent bulbs so I am forced to use the short-lived halogen bulbs.
I noticed the selection of halogen bulbs is very limited at the supermarket. Maybe they are the next type to go.
The Great Lightbulb Conspiracy
I noticed the selection of halogen bulbs is very limited at the supermarket. Maybe they are the next type to go.
The Great Lightbulb Conspiracy
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restorer-john
Grand Contributor
What fitting (BC/ES) do they have and what is the maximum length/diameter you can fit. I had similar problems with some light fittings but have found some LEDs that fit and last.
digicidal
Major Contributor
That was the case in my double oven as well. I understand when use eventually wears out devices - either through heat and dust intrusion, or physical degradation of controls, etc. However, my wife and I never bake... the oven gets used maybe 2 times a year at most. The design of the logic board and power supply was such that just running the clock for 7 years was enough. Thankfully, I was able to replace the logic board - but I knew 95% of it was still perfectly fine, just the PS was fried. Unfortunately, I don't have your knowledge or experience on the EE side - so replacing it was as good as I could do.
Much better than throwing the whole oven away, but still a completely pointless waste of resources winding up in a landfill. (To say nothing of my time and frustration).
Much better than throwing the whole oven away, but still a completely pointless waste of resources winding up in a landfill.
(To say nothing of my time and frustration).Was about to reply the same...
What we are witnessing however is the logical evolution of a market economy. The market is finite but Capitalism would like to believe that economies must (will) continuously grow... I don't know where the limits lie but believe we are approaching these.
digicidal
Major Contributor
Well, I used to think that about inflation, deficit spending, and currency/commodity manipulation, etc. as well. I was positive we were hitting the bumpstocks about 15 years ago... shows what I know.
One thing's for sure... when we run out of resources entirely - it's gonna be pretty difficult to keep growing a consumer-based economy at all. (Not that it would ever last that long in reality)
restorer-john
Grand Contributor
Our single oven needed a power supply rebuild for exactly the same problem. With all controls being "soft" via relays driven from the main clock micro, the power supply driving the clock is the best way for manufacturers to kill the entire oven at the 7-10 year mark. The usual culprits of undersized, poor quality, fake electrolytics meant the display dimmed out, the oven got touchy, even the beeper and timer controls got intermittent.
The hardest part was getting the oven out and dismantling the thing to get to the controller. The repair was 5 minutes worth. It's been going for another 7 years straight now.
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