Music is dead.

[MattHooper]

Oh brother, Matt there's something serious wrong with your head. You hate the blues and love the vinyl.

.

I have no problem with your assessment. Guilty as charged.

 

[dpturner]

...generally I like almost any type of music...except The Blues ...

ok then, how about the blues of Captain Beefheart?

 

[Robin L]

ok then, how about the blues of Captain Beefheart?

Something tells me . . .

 

[pseudoid]

So, should we ask @Pearljam5000 to turn this into a "Dead or Alive" Poll?
One of the choices could be BonJovi.

 

[MattHooper]

ok then, how about the blues of Captain Beefheart?

Ha. God no! My pal tried to turn me on to CB not long ago. Unlistenable wanking.

I don't know how you guys are doing it, but you are managing to find the few acts that turn me off. I'm not even sure there's more on the list, except I may as well get this out of the way: REM. Most overrated band in history. MOR noise.

Aside from Dylan, Waits, Springsteen (though didn't mind his 80's album) Beefheart, and The Traditional Blues...oh...and "oversinging" (including the wretched over use of melisma in R&B and pop, of the type that get American Idol and The Voice audiences screaming with delirium), genre-wise I like most stuff.

I love prog rock, and have been listening to tons of it since getting back in to vinyl (dunno why they seem such a perfect fit). But there's a sort of cut-off point for me, I guess depending on the band. King Crimson I start with Discipline, Genesis with Lamb Lies Down On Broadway, Yes...I'll go back to Fragile if only for Roundabout. No Gentle Giant, please. Big Rush fan.

Basically for me, I'm not a fan of earlier Prog because I find it unformed - it's when players started experimenting "hey, we can start playing some really crazy sh*t, let's try" which was great for experimenting and getting the ball rolling, but I didn't find the music cohesive or attractive, and their chops weren't really there yet to my ears. But everyone got better and better, honed the prog craft more and more, and I guess that's where I jumped in. Mid to later 70's. But that's clearly a function of my age, just turned 58, so 14 in '77, which is when I started getting in to that stuff. I know there are a bunch of older fogeys here for whom even earlier stuff resonates.

 

[Robin L]

Ha. God no! My pal tried to turn me on to CB not long ago. Unlistenable wanking.

I don't know how you guys are doing it, but you are managing to find the few acts that turn me off. I'm not even sure there's more on the list, except I may as well get this out of the way: REM. Most overrated band in history. MOR noise.

Aside from Dylan, Waits, Springsteen (though didn't mind his 80's album) Beefheart, and The Traditional Blues...oh...and "oversinging" (including the wretched over use of melisma in R&B and pop, of the type that get American Idol and The Voice audiences screaming with delirium), genre-wise I like most stuff.

I love prog rock, and have been listening to tons of it since getting back in to vinyl (dunno why they seem such a perfect fit). But there's a sort of cut-off point for me, I guess depending on the band. King Crimson I start with Discipline, Genesis with Lamb Lies Down On Broadway, Yes...I'll go back to Fragile if only for Roundabout. No Gentle Giant, please. Big Rush fan.

Basically for me, I'm not a fan of earlier Prog because I find it unformed - it's when players started experimenting "hey, we can start playing some really crazy sh*t, let's try" which was great for experimenting and getting the ball rolling, but I didn't find the music cohesive or attractive, and their chops weren't really there yet to my ears. But everyone got better and better, honed the prog craft more and more, and I guess that's where I jumped in. Mid to later 70's. But that's clearly a function of my age, just turned 58, so 14 in '77, which is when I started getting in to that stuff. I know there are a bunch of older fogeys here for whom even earlier stuff resonates.

I'm just gonna bet you don't like this either:

 

[MattHooper]

I'm just gonna bet you don't like this either:

Doesn't move me. Not a fan of the narration. I like the occaisional dip in to Schoenberg.

I love the Exorcist soundtrack which as lots of wild, modernist stuff:

I got that re-issue on vinyl a while back, and one night listened to the whole thing with the lights off on my system. It was the musical equivolent of having a schizophrenic attack.

 

[Robin L]

Doesn't move me. Not a fan of the narration. I like the occaisional dip in to Schoenberg.

I love the Exorcist soundtrack which as lots of wild, modernist stuff:

I got that re-issue on vinyl a while back, and one night listened to the whole thing with the lights off on my system. It was the musical equivolent of having a schizophrenic attack.

I'd say this gets closer to an attack of schizophrenia:

 

[Sal1950]

I love prog rock, and have been listening to tons of it since getting back in to vinyl (dunno why they seem such a perfect fit).

Ah, that's were your missing out. Most of the best progressive rock is available in some form of multich from Quad to now being issued in Atmos.
Of course you could get into collecting the old SQ, QS, and CD4 LP's, along with all that 70-80s quad gear.
You could even go whole hog and start getting into the quad 4 channel 8 track tapes.
Lots of my buds over at QuadraphonicQuad Forum are deep into that stuff having a blast with it.

 

[JaccoW]

A lot of the older rock sounds the same to me. I always have trouble differentiating between U2, REM and Oasis for example because they are all sing in this whiny voice most of the time.

My #1 hated song is Wonderwall by Oasis. But I'm not the only one in that.

I can still really appreciate bands like Cream but then again Ginger Baker was a jazz drummer.

Ha. God no! My pal tried to turn me on to CB not long ago. Unlistenable wanking.

I don't know how you guys are doing it, but you are managing to find the few acts that turn me off. I'm not even sure there's more on the list, except I may as well get this out of the way: REM. Most overrated band in history. MOR noise.

Aside from Dylan, Waits, Springsteen (though didn't mind his 80's album) Beefheart, and The Traditional Blues...oh...and "oversinging" (including the wretched over use of melisma in R&B and pop, of the type that get American Idol and The Voice audiences screaming with delirium), genre-wise I like most stuff.

I like Captain Beefheart but I listen to a lot of music that can be classified as noise. It's weird and experimental and just brings a smile to my face. But I certainly wouldn't play it while driving.

Lately I got a lot into modern jazz, funk and ambient and rediscovered a lot of electronic music like house and techno.

Around the 4:20 mark the pianist goes into a syncopated (sort of an offbeat accent) solo and it sounds weird at first but falls into place if you listen to it longer. It's still really funny hear the crowd clap on the beat but making it sound offbeat.

I'd say this gets closer to an attack of schizophrenia:

If you like that you should take a look at the movie Climax. It's a great "feel-bad" horror movie about a dance group that gets together for a party where somebody laces their sangria with LSD and they all end up tripping out on a bad trip.

This uncomfortable song by Thomas Baltanger (from Daft Punk) was part of the soundtrack and covers the feeling a bit.

Epilepsy warning though

 

[killdozzer]

Having said that and having researched the issue a bit in the past, people who study music and deal with music history etc. do agree that the 60's and 70's were among the best decades for music output across all genres and across most countries and languages, as these seemed to be the two decades which created most of the masterpieces in almost every kind of musical genre.
This occurred for a number of reasons, beyond the scope of this thread, but the two main reasons are (a) in the early 50s most of the world came out from pretty much 50 years of wars, and people were 'hungry' for art (including music) because art, as a society activity, was sacrificed for many years due to warfare, death and poverty; (b) the advances in recording techniques of the time, i.e. from mono to stereo, from 10''LP to 12'' LP etc.

Even this will change. This is the result of most music historians being still directly influenced by the 60' and 70'. Old farts is what they're usually known as. Younger writers today don't feel the imperative of labeling every Gilmour's fart as a timeless classic. And let's face it, some of it was good and some of it was pure crap. And some of the well liked material by Floyd was completely amiss as lyrics on the Division Bell tells us, as well as the suicide of Kurt Cobain. To understand this, one should just pay attention to all the proclaimed timeless classics which are completely forgotten by time.

Of course it's different with older members in this thread, but the fact that they're STILL listening to those Gilmour's farts doesn't make them timeless since they're the same audience as back then. Timeless would mean that some GenZ kid still thinks today he should own, for example, the album "More" and preferably if kid's parents weren't listening to Floyd at all, simply to be sure it is his own choice and discovery. Reading most of the comments here, I suspect it would make most cry to see how rare that is.

Nothing progressive in progressive and the futurism of the 80'. Much like records themselves being considered the all that in music recording technology, so was the music of the time considered all that. But much like almost no one uses the hexagonal electric drums these days, although it was the "vision of the future", people were equally wrong about the everlasting quality of the music they grew up with. And same as vinyl records, it's just nostalgia. Some albums were good, some albums were shit and the most interesting thing is which are which is not the same as it used to be. Time judges differently.

To further understand how this "museum-like" or "mandatory canons" features of art come about, I recommend one to read Stuart Hall, a noted sociologist with some worthy insight into the matter.

When Beatles first started to play, conservative priests in their community all but crucified them, saying much of the same things Old Farts are only to quick to say about today's music. And what they said about New Romantics appearing, and the same thing they said about Kraftwerk appearing, and the same thing they said about Punk appearing, and the same thing they said about distortion as a guitar effect appearing, and the same thing they said when Black Sabbath appeared, and the same thing they said for Elvise's hips swinging, and the same thing they said about Sympathy for the Devil playing, The Doors, hard rock, Billy Idol, Disco, Rave, Techno, even for the OP's beloved Led Zeppelin, Lou Reed, Iggy Pop...

To see people who are into music doing the exact same thing those idiot priests did back then ALL THE WHILE citing as shinny examples of how good it was all those bands that were at one point in time scorned one way or the other, simply kills every hope. Making Pop culture into mandatory canons and obligatory reading that will be pushed upon younger generations same as some older music was pushed upon the young back then, only makes me think you haven't learned anything.

It's about every generation having their own music.

 

[Doodski]

U2, REM and Oasis for example because they are all sing in this whiny voice most of the time.

Haha. I feel the same way.

 

[Robin L]

It's about every generation having their own music.

Even the quintessential standard bearer for canonical rock [Paul Simon] knows that: " . . . every generation throws a hero up the pop charts." I usually catch up to something in pop culture that I really like in about 5 years. When granddaughter Kaia said "LCD Soundsystem are the best people in the world" about five years ago, I had to listen, and she's pretty close to right, close enough:

But the reality is, the older you are, the more the past pulls on you. I'm listening to classic Gordon Lightfoot tracks for the first time, even though I was already taken when "If You Could Read My Mind" first appeared on AM radio. "Cold on the Shoulder" is as good in its own way, heard it for the first time a couple of months ago:

 

[gsp1971]

Even this will change. This is the result of most music historians being still directly influenced by the 60' and 70'. Old farts is what they're usually known as. Younger writers today don't feel the imperative of labeling every Gilmour's fart as a timeless classic. And let's face it, some of it was good and some of it was pure crap. And some of the well liked material by Floyd was completely amiss as lyrics on the Division Bell tells us, as well as the suicide of Kurt Cobain. To understand this, one should just pay attention to all the proclaimed timeless classics which are completely forgotten by time.

Of course it's different with older members in this thread, but the fact that they're STILL listening to those Gilmour's farts doesn't make them timeless since they're the same audience as back then. Timeless would mean that some GenZ kid still thinks today he should own, for example, the album "More" and preferably if kid's parents weren't listening to Floyd at all, simply to be sure it is his own choice and discovery. Reading most of the comments here, I suspect it would make most cry to see how rare that is.

Nothing progressive in progressive and the futurism of the 80'. Much like records themselves being considered the all that in music recording technology, so was the music of the time considered all that. But much like almost no one uses the hexagonal electric drums these days, although it was the "vision of the future", people were equally wrong about the everlasting quality of the music they grew up with. And same as vinyl records, it's just nostalgia. Some albums were good, some albums were shit and the most interesting thing is which are which is not the same as it used to be. Time judges differently.

To further understand how this "museum-like" or "mandatory canons" features of art come about, I recommend one to read Stuart Hall, a noted sociologist with some worthy insight into the matter.

When Beatles first started to play, conservative priests in their community all but crucified them, saying much of the same things Old Farts are only to quick to say about today's music. And what they said about New Romantics appearing, and the same thing they said about Kraftwerk appearing, and the same thing they said about Punk appearing, and the same thing they said about distortion as a guitar effect appearing, and the same thing they said when Black Sabbath appeared, and the same thing they said for Elvise's hips swinging, and the same thing they said about Sympathy for the Devil playing, The Doors, hard rock, Billy Idol, Disco, Rave, Techno, even for the OP's beloved Led Zeppelin, Lou Reed, Iggy Pop...

To see people who are into music doing the exact same thing those idiot priests did back then ALL THE WHILE citing as shinny examples of how good it was all those bands that were at one point in time scorned one way or the other, simply kills every hope. Making Pop culture into mandatory canons and obligatory reading that will be pushed upon younger generations same as some older music was pushed upon the young back then, only makes me think you haven't learned anything.

It's about every generation having their own music.

If what you say were true, the only people who would be attending a Bruce Springsteen or a Santana concert today would be old men over 70 with kinetic problems and canes. Is this what you see?

The Doors albums are still being bought today.
Pink Floyd albums are still being bought today.
Led Zeppelin albums are still being bought today.
Elvis albums are still being bought today.
Eagles albums are still being bought today.
Beatles albums are still being bought today.
Rolling Stones albums are still being bought today.
Frank Sinatra albums are still being bought today.
Nat King Cole albums are still being bought today.
Miles Davis albums are still being bought today.
Bob Dylan albums are still being bought today.
and so on ...
Are you claiming that the people who buy these records today are the same audience which was young back then? i.e. today's over 65s?
I doubt it.
Every generation buys music produced both from the current generation of musicians as well as from previous generations of musicians.
Otherwise, when an artist passes away, we would have to throw all their records to the trash can.

And what about classical music? Most of it was written 200-300 years ago and musicians still perform it and people still go to concerts and still buy classical music records. Who buys these records? Aren't these records timeless?

 

[JaccoW]

Even this will change. This is the result of most music historians being still directly influenced by the 60' and 70'. Old farts is what they're usually known as. Younger writers today don't feel the imperative of labeling every Gilmour's fart as a timeless classic. And let's face it, some of it was good and some of it was pure crap. And some of the well liked material by Floyd was completely amiss as lyrics on the Division Bell tells us, as well as the suicide of Kurt Cobain. To understand this, one should just pay attention to all the proclaimed timeless classics which are completely forgotten by time.

Exactly.

Here in the Netherlands a national radio station has been making a Top 2000 songs of all time list that starts at the bottom at the beginning of december. The top 5 has pretty much stayed the same for over 20 years.

1999 edition: Link

• 1. Bohemian Rhapsody - Queen (1975)
• 2. Hotel California - Eagles (1977)
• 3. Child in Time - Deep Purple (1970)
• 4. Stairway to Heaven - Led Zeppelin (1971)
• 5. Paradise by the dashboard light - Meat Loaf (1978)

2010 edition: Link

• 1. Hotel California - Eagles
• 2. Bohemian Rhapsody - Queen
• 3. Avond - Boudewijn de Groot (1997)
• 4. Child in Time - Deep Purple
• 5. Stairway to Heaven - Led Zeppelin

2020 edition: Link

• 1. Roller Coaster - Danny Vera (2019)
• 2. Bohemian Rhapsody - Queen
• 3. Hotel California - Eagles
• 4. Piano Man - Billy Joel (1973)
• 5. Stairway to Heaven - Led Zeppelin

The science behind the answers:
Does this mean these are the greatest songs of all time? To some people sure but this forum is called AudioScienceReview so let's put some population science into this.

Who listens to this particular radio station?

• 57% Men / 43% Women
• 25-67 years old but 58% of that is older working people in the 46-67 age group. Those that grew up with rock music of the 60's, 70's and 80's. No wonder they will find that type of music the best there is.
• Educated and average income.
• Soure: Ster reclame NPO2 fact sheet

Population pyramid of the Netherlands: Source: Statistics Netherlands (CBS)

2000

The youngest 30 year old part of this bubble was born in 1970. The oldest 55 year olds were born in 1945.

2010

The youngest 40 year old part of this bubble was born in 1970. The oldest (retiring) 65 year olds were born in 1945.

2020

The youngest 50 year old part of this bubble was born in 1970. The oldest (retired) 75 year olds were born in 1945.

2030

The youngest 30 year old part of this new lower bubble was born in 2000. The oldest 45 year olds of the new bubble were born in 1985. There is still a peak at 60 years old and those were born in 1970.

There is a very good chance by 2030 the top 5 will be filled up with music from the late 90's and early 00's. Simply because that's the music of their youth by then and the baby boomer generation that has filled the charts will be slimming down.

 

[JaccoW]

The Doors albums are still being bought today.
Pink Floyd albums are still being bought today.
Led Zeppelin albums are still being bought today.
Elvis albums are still being bought today.
Eagles albums are still being bought today.
Beatles albums are still being bought today.
Rolling Stones albums are still being bought today.
Frank Sinatra albums are still being bought today.
Nat King Cole albums are still being bought today.
Miles Davis albums are still being bought today.
Bob Dylan albums are still being bought today.
and so on ...
Are you claiming that the people who buy these records today are the same audience which was young back then? i.e. today's over 65s?
I doubt it.
Every generation buys music produced both from the current generation of musicians as well as from previous generations of musicians.
Otherwise, when an artist passes away, we would have to throw all their records to the trash can.

And what about classical music? Most of it was written 200-300 years ago and musicians still perform it and people still go to concerts and still buy classical music records. Who buys these records? Aren't these records timeless?

I have the Beatles, Rolling Stones, Frank Sinatra and Miles Davis on CD. I cannot remember the last time I listened to Dylan, Elvis or Led Zeppelin, even on the radio. Plenty of other good songs since then.

And let's be honest, the over 65's are often the affluent generation that has the time and money to listen to these songs on repeat and wanting to buy them again in higher quality to experience their youth again.

 

[gsp1971]

The science behind the answers:
Does this mean these are the greatest songs of all time? To some people sure but this forum is called AudioScienceReview so let's put some population science into this.

Who listens to this particular radio station?

• 57% Men / 43% Women
• 25-67 years old but 58% of that is older working people in the 46-67 age group. Those that grew up with rock music of the 60's, 70's and 80's.

... which means the remaining 42% is NOT people who grew up with rock music of the 60's, 70's and 80's. Huge percent.

 

[gsp1971]

I have the Beatles, Rolling Stones, Frank Sinatra and Miles Davis on CD. I cannot remember the last time I listened to Dylan, Elvis or Led Zeppelin, even on the radio. Plenty of other good songs since then.

And let's be honest, the over 65's are often the affluent generation that has the time and money to listen to these songs on repeat and wanting to buy them again in higher quality to experience their youth again.

I sincerely doubt record sales are sustained by the over 65s ....

 

[JaccoW]

... which means the remaining 42% is NOT people who grew up with rock music of the 60's, 70's and 80's. Huge percent.

True. But 21.3% falls into the business to business (B2B) range which will likely also cover a lot of the same 46-67 year age group. If we assume a similar spread there as the 25-67 year old group we're talking about a spread like this:

• 10-24 = 7.6%
• 25-45 = 29.4%
• 46-67 = 60%

You certainly see music that the younger generation likes in the lower rungs of the list. But it rarely makes the top 10.
And teens and 30-40 year olds do not often agree on music.

 

[Robin L]

A lot of the older rock sounds the same to me. I always have trouble differentiating between U2, REM and Oasis for example because they are all sing in this whiny voice most of the time.

My #1 hated song is Wonderwall by Oasis. But I'm not the only one in that.

I can still really appreciate bands like Cream but then again Ginger Baker was a jazz drummer.

I like Captain Beefheart but I listen to a lot of music that can be classified as noise. It's weird and experimental and just brings a smile to my face. But I certainly wouldn't play it while driving.

Lately I got a lot into modern jazz, funk and ambient and rediscovered a lot of electronic music like house and techno.

Around the 4:20 mark the pianist goes into a syncopated (sort of an offbeat accent) solo and it sounds weird at first but falls into place if you listen to it longer. It's still really funny hear the crowd clap on the beat but making it sound offbeat.

If you like that you should take a look at the movie Climax. It's a great "feel-bad" horror movie about a dance group that gets together for a party where somebody laces their sangria with LSD and they all end up tripping out on a bad trip.

This uncomfortable song by Thomas Baltanger (from Daft Punk) was part of the soundtrack and covers the feeling a bit.

Epilepsy warning though

I'm not so sure about seeing "Climax" [I hate it when people don't know how to have a good time], but love the musical clip. In "Bohor", there's a very long sustained "trance" element to the music, with the sound of a wind machine intruding and increasing in volume to the point of clipping, then suddenly shutting off. The "Sangria" clip starts with what sounds more like techno, with sinister electronic textures intruding, similarly disturbing what was previously a "comfortable" sonic environment.