MQA: A Review of controversies, concerns, and cautions

[RichB]

How do they do that with streaming?

Simple, they encode the "Master" using MQA thereby reducing the potential dynamic range for approximately 96 dB to 90 dB decoded.
This is the wrong direction for HD Audio.

MQA trades dynamic range (which we can hear) for ultrasonics (which we cannot hear).
Even without the other MQA issues, this should a disqualifier for anyone supporting audibly transparent audio.

- Rich

 

[Soniclife]

Simple, they encode the "Master" using MQA thereby reducing the potential dynamic range for approximately 96 dB to 76 dB.
This is the wrong direction for HD Audio.

MQA trades dynamic range (which we can hear) for ultrasonics (which we cannot hear).
Even without the other MQA issues, this should a disqualifier for anyone supporting audibly transparent audio.

- Rich

That doesn't answer how that would force you to buy a decoder.

 

[RichB]

Going through the archives to see the whole discussion; I really liked this graphic, and there's a lot of truth to it (Go plastic disks! lol). Download and early streaming was a catastrophe for sound quality. That's probably the rationale for MQA; high quality, original 'master' sound, and lower data streaming rates. In a way it has brought high res audio to a lot of people.

Having read some of the back articles being paraded to death, it does seem like there's a genuine interest in certifying the source as original to the recorded 'master', with DRM not being a factor, but proprietary / licenced hardware and encoding / decoding being an issue. So I suppose there are valid points on both sides of the argument.

MQA marketing has updated the quality chart:

- Rich

 

[RichB]

That doesn't answer how that would force you to buy a decoder.

Without MQA, their marketing tells you that lose the potential HD Audio.
In truth, you lose the Dynamic range of a CD even with the recording and you lose the ability to select your own reconstruction filter.

But you get some inaudible ultrasonic sound and a potentially broken reconstruction filter advertised as deblur.
With no technical data or measurement to back it up, it is not verified as superior.

- Rich

 

[Soniclife]

Without MQA, their marketing tells you that lose the potential HD Audio.
In truth, you lose the Dynamic range of a CD even with the recording and you lose the ability to select your own reconstruction filter.

But you get some inaudible ultrasonic sound and a potentially broken reconstruction filter advertised as deblur.
With no technical data or measurement to back it up, its not verified as superior.

- Rich

I don't have any MQA hardware, but if I use roon, their desktop, or my phone the unfold is done. The software decoder it irrelevant. So how are they doing to force people to buy their hardware who stream.

 

[RichB]

I don't have any MQA hardware, but if I use roon, their desktop, or my phone the unfold is done. The software decoder it irrelevant. So how are they doing to force people to buy their hardware who stream.

I think your trying to argue some point with a question that is a non-sequitur.
Ok, let's talk in questions.

How does MQA retain 16 bit dynamic range?
How can one hear ultrasonics?
How does is an MQA deblur filter better or more accurate than a Linear Phase Fast filter?

If you do not answer these questions, I won't keep posting

- Rich

 

[Soniclife]

I think your trying to argue some point with a question that is a non-sequitur.
Ok, let's talk in questions.

How does MQA retain 16 bit dynamic range?
How can one hear ultrasonics?
How does is an MQA deblur filter better or more accurate than a Linear Phase Fast filter?

If you do not answer these questions, I won't keep posting them

- Rich

You're just answering my original question with unrelated other questions.

 

[Krunok]

How do they do that with streaming?

With proprietary decoding at the end of the stream.

 

[Soniclife]

With proprietary decoding at the end of the stream.

I don't follow. That decoding is happening in the software now, yeilding all the accuracy MQA has.

 

[Krunok]

I don't follow. That decoding is happening in the software now, yeilding all the accuracy MQA has.

There can be no additional accuracy to CD quality format - all information that is contained in the format is already restored so you cannot extract anything more than that. You woud have to do different encoding during production to get more "accuracy".

 

[Soniclife]

There can be no additional accuracy to CD quality format - all information that is contained in the format is already restored so you cannot extract anything more than that. You woud have to do different encoding during production to get more "accuracy".

I still don't follow, my original question was.

Which distribution channels are people concerned about being taken over by MQA and forcing people to buy decoders?

Are we agreeing that if you have the software decoder there is no advantage to MQA hardware?

 

[Krunok]

I still don't follow, my original question was.

Are we agreeing that if you have the software decoder there is no advantage to MQA hardware?

MQA decoder, as any other decoder, is always a software. It can be runned by your PC or by a dedicated hardware.

 

[Eirikur]

Are we agreeing that if you have the software decoder there is no advantage to MQA hardware?

According to Bob himself, you must have a hardware decoder (not just a "renderer") for the full experience.

 

[RichB]

According to Bob himself, you must have a hardware decoder (not just a "renderer") for the full experience.

For the full royalty experience

- Rich

 

[RichB]

That doesn't answer how that would force you to buy a decoder.

Here you go:

They can't directly force me to buy the decoder but I pay for it when I buy Roon, they get their royalty check.
That's what matters to MQA.

If the product price does not increase, they used their marketing presence and influence to leach some money out of those who actually added value, like Roon and Oppo.

I don't want their 15 bit audio format masquerading as HD Audio.
MQA does not have the dynamic range of HD Audio,
MQA does not have the sample rate of HD Audio.
MQA may have some lossey inaudible ultra-sonic frequencies. No thanks.

It is technically inferior to HD Audio and, when played without a decoder, is technically inferior to a CD.

- Rich

 

[Sal1950]

How do they do that with streaming?

??? I was referring to the various "distribution channels" such as Steaming (Tidal), CD, Download, even an LP LOL
They each are infected with MQA in some form.

 

[Sal1950]

MQA marketing has updated the quality chart:

I find it interesting that they rated the DVD-A and SACD as being on the same quality level as the CD? The two previous formats both offer various options for HD data rate on 5.1 or more channels. The very same HD data buckets they claim need their compression schemes?
Pewwww, go away Mr Stuart, you're stinkin up the joint. LOL

 

[Blumlein 88]

Here you go:

They can't directly force me to buy the decoder but I pay for it when I buy Roon, they get their royalty check.
That's what matters to MQA.

If the product price does not increase, they used their marketing presence and influence to leach some money out of those who actually added value, like Roon and Oppo.

I don't want their 13 bit audio format masquerading as HD Audio.
MQA does not have the dynamic range of HD Audio,
MQA does not have the sample rate of HD Audio.
MQA may have some lossey inaudible ultra-sonic frequencies. No thanks.

It is technically inferior to HD Audio and, when played without a decoder, is technically inferior to a CD.

- Rich

Well I'd like to correct misinformation I promoted in error. MQA is more like 15 bit CD. I made the error reading some of their patents, but in the eventual implementation MQA is only using the lowest bit for the folding.

 

[Blumlein 88]

https://audiophilestyle.com/forums/...s-to-16-bits-and-the-blue-light-still-shines/

An interesting thread about the MQA blue light.

Mansr in this post of that thread explains a bit about what turns on the blue light.
https://audiophilestyle.com/forums/...t-still-shines/?do=findComment&comment=784981

 

[RichB]

I find it interesting that they rated the DVD-A and SACD as being on the same quality level as the CD? The two previous formats both offer various options for HD data rate on 5.1 or more channels. The very same HD data buckets they claim need their compression schemes?
Pewwww, go away Mr Stuart, you're stinkin up the joint. LOL

That makes no sense. What's with the reel to reel rating? You can get 192K on BD/DVD-A.

Here is an audio qfrom Audioholics:
https://www.audioholics.com/audio-technologies/dvd-audio-vs-sacd-vs-cd

Here is the chart with MQA added in maroon for review. If it is incorrect, I will update it.

Edit 1: Changed MQA decoded to 15 bits.
Edit 2: Added MQA native 13 bits.

- Rich