More nonsense on Agon

[melvinjames]

While it seems the OP posted a serious question many of their members just can't help but spew nasty uncivilized BS. Why do I bother reading that site? Old habits maybe? I even deleted my membership a couple of months ago.

https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/did-amir-change-your-mind-about-anything

 

[melvinjames]

This post in particular is beyond belief.

 

[fpitas]

Lol! When you wrestle a pig in poop, you get covered in poop, but the pig loves it.

 

[mglobe]

While it seems the OP posted a serious question many of their members just can't help but spew nasty uncivilized BS. Why do I bother reading that site? Old habits maybe? I even deleted my membership a couple of months ago.

https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/did-amir-change-your-mind-about-anything

I don't follow that forum, but we have nonsense and poor behavior here too. It has nothing to do with the this site, or that site. It's human behavior on the internet. The $30k speaker search is a good example, where a handful of people (mostly 1 individual) destroyed what was an entertaining, informative, and based on the number of pages popular thread.

 

[fpitas]

I don't follow that forum, but we have nonsense and poor behavior here too. It has nothing to do with the this site, or that site. It's human behavior on the internet. The $30k speaker search is a good example, where a handful of people (mostly 1 individual) destroyed what was an entertaining, informative, and based on the number of pages popular thread.

Yes, and I saw that coming from miles away.

 

[Keith_W]

You can't please everyone. I don't think that Amir would be bothered when people throw brickbats at him. Or if he is, he shouldn't be.

 

[poxymoron]

This one's a doozy:

@milpai
It’s good to read ASR and the measurements. About changing opinions - I think he confirmed it. I stopped visiting that site once I saw that people who fell for his measurements, purchased the equipment, only to find them lifeless or unmusical

 

[melvinjames]

I just don't get the uncivil behavior. Politics and religion yes, but audio?

 

[fpitas]

I just don't get the uncivil behavior. Politics and religion yes, but audio?

Once people become invested in a belief system, it's all the same.

 

[FrantzM]

@amirm from now on going to Audio Shows...

 

[mglobe]

Yes, and I saw that coming from miles away.

I think many of us saw it coming. At least one of the problem children is now a deleted member.

 

[FrantzM]

Hi

How did you expect people whose businesses are challenged by facts, provable, repeatable facts, to react? Do you for a few minutes, pause to realize, the profits when a brand finally has some kind of success in the HEA? When you sell some assembly of 8 feet copper or even Silver wires in a sheath for 20,000.oo???
They had to react, and since they have no facts to back their defense?.. ad hominem to the rescue.

Peace.

 

[Martin]

I stopped reading Agon forums years ago before I found ASR and when i still believed a number of audiophile myths. What drove me away was their veneration of Geoff Kait. They devoured every word from that king of charlatans like it was manna from heaven. I could not abide that kind of blind acceptance.

The business practices of their new owners around that time drove many who did business on Agon to USAudioMart. Agon is now a parody of its former self.

Martin

 

[fpitas]

A good salesman know where all the strings are, and pulls them. For some reason that impresses a lot of people.

 

[Sgt. Ear Ache]

I don't get it really. I mean the fundamental philosophical position ASR is basically founded upon is that one shouldn't dump a bunch of money into audio gear unless there's reasonably good evidence that it actually does something to improve the sound quality of the system and that we can use some fairly reliable objective means to provide that evidence. Otoh, most other hi-fi sites seem to operate under the philosophy that literally everything makes a difference and the more you spend the better because there's always improvements to be had and no effort needs to be made to try and prove or quantify those improvements separate from issues related to cognitive bias because our ears tell us all we need to know. To me, one of those philosophies seems to have a lot more potential for harm than the other...

 

[fpitas]

I don't get it really. I mean the fundamental philosophical position ASR is basically founded upon is that one shouldn't dump a bunch of money into audio gear unless there's reasonably good evidence that it actually does something to improve the sound quality of the system and that we can use some fairly reliable objective means to provide that evidence. Otoh, most other hi-fi sites seem to operate under the philosophy that literally everything makes a difference and the more you spend the better because there's always improvements to be had and no effort needs to be made to try and prove or quantify those improvements separate from issues related to cognitive bias because our ears tell us all we need to know. To me, one of those philosophies seems to have a lot more potential for harm than the other...

A lot more potential for big bucks, too!

 

[Sgt. Ear Ache]

A lot more potential for big bucks, too!

oh absolutely! I have no confusion at all regarding the reasons the industry has for maintaining that philosophy. But from the perspective of us the end user...it just seems like the ASR position makes a lot of sense.

 

[fpitas]

oh absolutely! I have no confusion at all regarding the reasons the industry has for maintaining that philosophy. But from the perspective of us the end user...it just seems like the ASR position makes a lot of sense.

I don't get it either. But a lot of salesmen make their living selling a dream.

 

[mglobe]

Seems like the real problems come up when people start labeling folks. Fool, moron, charlatan,... I cringe every time a thread pops up about one of the folks many people here don't like (youtube reviewers, vendors,...). Some of them I find provide value, some I don't. But when we start saying this guy is an idiot, that guy is a crook,... we don't help the perception of this forum anymore than the folks on audiogon (or name your least favorite) forum help theirs.

 

[ahofer]

I stopped reading Agon forums years ago before I found ASR and when i still believed a number of audiophile myths. What drove me away was their veneration of Geoff Kait. They devoured every word from that king of charlatans like it was manna from heaven. I could not abide that kind of blind acceptance.

The business practices of their new owners around that time drove many who did business on Agon to USAudioMart. Agon is now a parody of its former self.

Martin

Very similar trajectory here. Kait was certainly an eye-opener. There were a few other people who tended to try to dominate the discussion - one guy who had wasted his money on literally hundreds of amplifiers and kept a list. It seemed like the more idiotic the assertion, the more huzzahs it would get. There were some nice, reasonable folks, but they were drowned out by the woo cheering section.