Mission 778x, Marantz Pm6007, Yamaha a-s301 or a-s501 and pairing

[JeremyFife]

There's never just one answer

From your original list; Yamaha AS501 with Elac DBR62s

The method of sub output doesn't matter much until you add a proper crossover. Your sub will take care of filtering and amplification in either case.
The WiiM Amp gives a better solution for sub integration, but it's not on your list and it has less power than the Yamaha.

You haven't said (or I missed it) how loud you listen, and how far you sit from the speakers . That's what determines your power requirements. The Yamaha should be plenty.

 

[ZolaIII]

@hipoagu and I answered you straight and simple. Better will be one where you can do proper manipulation to deal with; room, other FR related issues and enabling you to make proper crossovers to math models with sub/sub's.
I also gave you proposal to get there even without sub's (at least for first time) for a little more than 1000 € with large active monitors, UMIK-1 and MiniDSP Flex. If you insist on pasive speakers I am sure you can find a better deal on Elac DBR62's and pair it with second hand Yamaha R-S/A-S for 150~250 €, rest remains the same. If you want proper integration of ISO 226 2003 or later you will need two sub's and you can put mains on them with some isolation between so you don't need speaker stands. Try to find for a good price (300 € a peace) Wharfedale WH-D10 sub's as a budget proposition in that category.

 

[hipoagu]

There's never just one answer

From your original list; Yamaha AS501 with Elac DBR62s

The method of sub output doesn't matter much until you add a proper crossover. Your sub will take care of filtering and amplification in either case.
The WiiM Amp gives a better solution for sub integration, but it's not on your list and it has less power than the Yamaha.

You haven't said (or I missed it) how loud you listen, and how far you sit from the speakers . That's what determines your power requirements. The Yamaha should be plenty.

Thanks! My room is around 20-24m2, speakers will be both sides of TV but standing on floor, no furniture to lay them. That's why floorstander with very good discounts such as 3050i (550eur in hifihut while nornal price is above 800) or diamond 12.3 were appealing to me. I thought that a floorstander would be better in almost every aspect to its bookshelve counter part in it same category . I thought, you may correct me, that if i could get 3050i for similar price as 3030i+original stands for the same price then it was no brainer to go for 3050i , even better of compared to dbr62 or Denton 85th.
System will be used for music and tv/movies at normal levels in the living room. I live in a flat, can't go party mode, but time to time , daytime or weekends mornings I may like to play a bit lauder.

 

[ZolaIII]

Those QA are a bit hard to handle thanks to large port's at back and fact they are deep for what they are. I have Q3030i's with a pair of mentioned sub's. Q3050i is basically the same thing with 2x woofers in floorstand form of course. DBR62's are better. You definitely need equal loudness normalisation in order that is sounds good on lower SPL.

 

[JeremyFife]

Cool. You still haven't said how far away from the speakers you will be - probably fine though.

What's important about speakers is getting the tweeters at approx head (ear) height - or angled up. Mine are wall mounted and angled down - not ideal but it works ok.
Do not spend much money on stands, reasonably robust and unlikely to fall over.
Floorstanders are often more sensitive - easier to drive - but you don't seem to need big volume so that's not so important.

 

[hipoagu]

Cool. You still haven't said how far away from the speakers you will be - probably fine though.

What's important about speakers is getting the tweeters at approx head (ear) height - or angled up. Mine are wall mounted and angled down - not ideal but it works ok.
Do not spend much money on stands, reasonably robust and unlikely to fall over.
Floorstanders are often more sensitive - easier to drive - but you don't seem to need big volume so that's not so important.

Ah sorry, listening position around 2.5m from tv which will be center of the 2 speakers whose minimum separation is also around 2.5 from each other. So perdect triangle.

 

[hipoagu]

Have you had a chance to listen to Bowers & Wilkins 600 lineup? If you are set on bookshelf speakers, I might recommend the 607 S3 or 606 S3. They’re a little more than your stated budget and the minimum impedance is a bit demanding, yet they may be contenders for a place in your system.

Of the speakers you’ve listed, I’ve heard the Monitor Audio bookshelf speakers and several of the larger models, and each time I have preferred the 607/606, by far.

I used to be a reviewer of orchestral and classical music for a US-based magazine and Canadian e-publication, so my tastes are bound to differ from your own. With that said, I do like bass. I had used a tone control on a Michi receiver to get a feel of the speaker’s overload behavior. Even the diminutive 607 could be pushed harder than any speaker I’ve heard in that size format. The midwoofer did not audibly distort or introduce perceptible doppler effects on the midrange content.

I could not listen to B&W 600 series but i may do, the only decent hifi shop in my city has a pair on exhibition not sure if 608 ot 606. None lf my other candidates available st the shops nearby. Those are a bit over my budget and read some reviews that they may be too bright for some, fatiguing.i'll check but not sure I want to like them because of the price

P.s.I am classical music lover, listen and will listen with new system lots of classical . I studied cello 10 years...ended up walking engineering path so unfortunately I quit music studies.

 

[AuricGoldfinger]

It will definately be down to your preference. The 600 S3 series isn’t as full bodied as the latest 700 and 800 series, and that was my main takeaway. It likes a few decibels of bass boost at the very bottom, but had surprising bass itself. I prefer this leaner midrange presentation for dual purpose (music and video media) systems, compared to the commonly over-emphasized lower midrange and bloated, cavernous upper bass that I hear from the majority of recent audiophile target speakers, that have to be turned up uncomfortably high.

I work in the chemical engineering field, myself. I have found that those who study music sometime change their studies for engineering, and those who studied engineering and remain motivated to find something else may sometimes complete the credit courses for dentistry or medicine.

 

[Roland68]

Not sure i understand your answer but i seems to me i asked if it is better of A or B and i think you answered C. I didn't mean what the ideal best subwoofer integration procedure, but just better of sub output (Marantz, Yamahas, Wiim mini have it) and generic pre-out ( Mission has just that, not desicate sub out).
Guys, I appreciate your enthusiasm and interesting discussions on internal vs external DAC and up to what degree tou can distinguish that, second hand discontinued high end amp market etc... ... but the point of the thread is me trying to figure out a good budget stereo audio system as combination of the 3 amps and 6 speakers I described in initial post....best quality, best quality/cost? I would appreciate more answers alligned with the initial intend of the thread.
Thanks to all anyway, you are great
This forum is awesome.

The problem is that you don't know what you want. That's why I gave you some advice at the beginning.
Within your budget and with the components you have chosen, you can swim or drive, but you expect to fly. That doesn't work.

The best stereo systems I've ever heard in my life didn't have a subwoofer. Integrating a subwoofer into a stereo setup and making it work well isn't easy and requires both knowledge and well-functioning technology. Unless you have the necessary budget, you shouldn't do something like that, otherwise you'll end up buying three times, not once.

 

[hipoagu]

The problem is that you don't know what you want. That's why I gave you some advice at the beginning.
Within your budget and with the components you have chosen, you can swim or drive, but you expect to fly. That doesn't work.

The best stereo systems I've ever heard in my life didn't have a subwoofer. Integrating a subwoofer into a stereo setup and making it work well isn't easy and requires both knowledge and well-functioning technology. Unless you have the necessary budget, you shouldn't do something like that, otherwise you'll end up buying three times, not once.

Thanks Roland. I think I know what I want (maybe sent confusing messages, my fault): I want integrated amp (with digital inputs) + passive speakers. Each of them in the range of 400-600 eur and gave in initial post 3 amps and 6 speakers I had previously narrowed down and asked the community for feedback on those options and favorite pairing among them.
All the subwoofer discussion was a side technical question on the different options integrated amps provide and I just see it as a future option I want to technically understand to make an informed decision on the amp, but I have not in mind a subwoofer at the moment at all.
Regards

 

[hipoagu]

Hi all,
I serached second hand market and found a-s501 for 250€, fot about also for 250€ a Marantz NR1609. That is a 7.2 receiver, 50w@8ohm, 75w@6hom (1khz signal)
Which one do you think is better deal? I am waiting to receive finally a new pair of qa 3050i for 488€ (91db sensitivity, 6ohm).

Marantz receiver offers some extras i am not getting on yamaha: networking/direct streamint, bluetooth and DSD through USB and most interesring also offers room correcction through audissey and provides mic. That i believe is a very good thing to adjust my system that I won't get with yamaha and would be hard to replicate by other means. I think is a strong point to go for marantz. Another is also more inputs, hdmi input i would use to connect bluray(used also for cd) , firetv stick etc.
On yamaha just 2 digital inputs and i need at least 3 for tv-bluray and wiim mini.
If going for the yamaha one of the mentioned will need to be connected to amp using analogue.
I also presume DAC will ve better on Marantz? The multichannel is not a thing for me at the moment. Yamaha will offer much more power headroom and loudness control.

Regards

 

[hipoagu]

Hi again,
I finally got a yamaha a-s501 second hand for 250€. Using with my old Sony 3 way ss-a705 speakers
Now , time for next step. I purchased 3050i for 530€ but only one arrived, despite y double checked before sending the online shop messed up with rhe end vendor and they said it was a reference error. I had no choice but to return it, I could not get a pair.
Now the options are 3050i 670€ with shipping, Diamond 12.3 620€ with shipping, Elac dbr62 400€ + 150€ stands.
I was 90% decided for floostanders but the dbr62 being now on sale for 400 make me doubt. With elac I am afraid of lacking full bodied sound, open soundstage and bass as compared to my current old sony 8"+4"+1" and what mentiones floorstanders can offer, even if less audiophile-ish than dbr62 ...
Aaarg. So doubtful.

 

[Kobold]

Hi!
Polk ES55.
Down firing bass reflex, very good sound and really no need for subwoofer.
ES20 and ES60 reviewed here with good results.

 

[Benji L]

Hi again,
I finally got a yamaha a-s501 second hand for 250€. Using with my old Sony 3 way ss-a705 speakers
Now , time for next step. I purchased 3050i for 530€ but only one arrived, despite y double checked before sending the online shop messed up with rhe end vendor and they said it was a reference error. I had no choice but to return it, I could not get a pair.
Now the options are 3050i 670€ with shipping, Diamond 12.3 620€ with shipping, Elac dbr62 400€ + 150€ stands.
I was 90% decided for floostanders but the dbr62 being now on sale for 400 make me doubt. With elac I am afraid of lacking full bodied sound, open soundstage and bass as compared to my current old sony 10"+5"+1" and what mentiones floorstanders can offer, even if less audiophile-ish than dbr62 ...
Aaarg. So doubtful.

If you have the room for floorstanders, then either of the two will likely give you better midrange and bass, in my experience.

 

[hipoagu]

If you have the room for floorstanders, then either of the two will likely give you better midrange and bass, in my experience.

It is approx 6x4m living room. Will stand on the long side, both sides of tv forniture, approx 3m from listening position, 2.5m separation between speakers

 

[Benji L]

The tower speakers you mentioned, or the Polk, should be fine in that space. If you find you have too much bass then you can always put foam bungs in the ports.

 

[gasolin75]

Mission 778X is still 443 euros (+ what ever they want for shipping to your country) in Denmark but atm not stock

 

[Ze Frog]

For that kind of budget, personally I'd be getting a Wiim amp, or possibly wait for the Wiim amp pro which should be along soon I think as they announced it alongside the Wiim ultra. You definitely want something that mentions 4ohm output as a large majority of speakers rated 8ohms really are not truly 8ohm at all for the area it most counts in the low frequencies.

 

[ZolaIII]

For that kind of budget, personally I'd be getting a Wiim amp, or possibly wait for the Wiim amp pro which should be along soon I think as they announced it alongside the Wiim ultra. You definitely want something that mentions 4ohm output as a large majority of speakers rated 8ohms really are not truly 8ohm at all for the area it most counts in the low frequencies.

Meanwhile Yamahas where tested hire on low load's and passed the tests without any problems.

 

[hipoagu]

I finally bought second hand almost unused Yahama A-S501 for 250€ and got a pair of white 3050i in av.com for about 550€. Less than a week with them but very happy so far. Wiim pro plus second hand unopen coming to handle all digital processing and room correction and i'll be done.