Fwiw, I find the difference between what I hear in some cases (including this one), and the measured results genuinely interesting. Recognizing the significant expertise & experience in designing & measuring audio system performance here …
If anyone knows of places (specific forum/threads, website, etc.) where discussion and exploration of the emerging science & best practices regarding the intersection of measured performance and audible results is taking place, I'd be very interested in pointers or references if anyone would be kind enough to suggest some.
[For example, particularly the emerging best practices of measuring actual audio system performance - as it affects sound quality/reproduction accuracy, potentially including topics such as
* Whether there is/are any verifiable differences between current common performance measurements and audible performance of some equipment
* Which types of measurements are most likely to be audible given current system performance levels; audibility thresholds of performance measurements, and
* Potentially emerging types of performance measurements (if any) and/or measurement condition best practices that might shed more light on this topic which I think is of interest to many of us.
Essentially which measurements matter most, and can we do meaningully better? ]
Not wanting to derail this thread, please feel free to PM me with the name and/or URL(s) if you know of any. Or post suggestions here if you think it might be of interest to this community. |
Well I am on a journey, as a beginner in audio, to figure all of this out myself. My current experience is this.. I finally set my sights and chose stereo listening as my favorite form of audio.
My question is somewhat along the same lines, but really pertains to how much of difference do you actually get. Not sure if it can be quantified.
I have two stereo setups, one in my theater room which is my main listening room. Also one in my living room to just enjoy music no matter where I am located in my home.
My living room setup is extremely inferior. I believe MSRP wise it’s about 600 or less. I use an Apple Airport Express 2nd Gen. Paid 35 for it used. I use an amplifier which has sinad measurements in the 40 db range. The amp has 1% distortion at very low wattage, not even its maximum rated. I paid 20 dollars for this amp, open box from the retailer. My speakers are Jamo S809’s I purchased open box for 150.
So I paid 200 for this setup, it’s not amazing. It’s not the best. It does not compare to a very well measuring system, like the one in my room.
Yet, when I sit down to do “critical” listening and not just have background music playing I do enjoy and do not despise or find any major flaws in my listening experience.
The tweeters do hiss.. nothing is outstanding, bass, imaging, soundstage, separation, etc.
But really want to push the fact that even with this price, and these measurements, which are not good and probably rank in top 5 worst setups.
It doesn’t sound bad.
I am not certain if anyone on here has ever owned a system this bad to actually have an idea of what “bad” sounds like, yet it isn’t so bad.
I am not saying no one has had a bad system, but I think many people on here are focused on measured performance. Just like myself.
But I did not care about performance, I bought this amp just because it was so cheap. Being good or bad did not matter to me.
Then I later check the performance and it is horrible. And I wonder.. prior to seeing these measurements I did not have anything bad to say about it. Nor did I consider it the best or outstanding.
Then later I find out this is the worst measuring unit in the vast market of amplifiers. This is what makes me wonder how much better is my main system, which operates at excellent measurements and is priced at an msrp of 10,000.
It is better, without a doubt and it’s clearly audible. How much better I can’t say and this is an answer I really wish I could get.
But this is my spectrum of understanding from the worst of the worst to a system which measurements wise is in the top 10% of probably all stereo setups.
I am not trying to play games or deceive anyone, I sincerely say that it’s not as bad as you think. I still think measurements are a great value, and if they are accurate and honest, you will get a better performance.
But another question after all of this is what really sounds bad? Something with a sinad of 20 and 10% distortion?
Also, with this being the case how can something with 70 db sinad and .1% distortion sound bad.
Once again, I am for measurements. Have nothing against it. We understand what good measurements can provide, but really how bad is something that measures in the middle ground or worse.
This alone allows me to comprehend how people come in here and refute what Amir says when something measures poorly and they tell us it sounds good and “we” do not know what we are talking about.
*My comments strictly apply to equipment. DAC/AMPS/PRE/Speakers