DonR
Major Contributor
As expected. When asked for proof they disappear.Bless you and good luck with the rest of your life.
As expected. When asked for proof they disappear.Bless you and good luck with the rest of your life.
Your measurements do not predict the mismatched levels. So if they don't predict mismatched levels, how do we know if those mismatches are consistent across frequency. We don't.I don't know if you smply lack knowledge or you are building a straw man. Obviously we can measure different output levels and most here often harp on level matching. Two dacs sounding different from mismatched volumes is hardly news or unmeasurable.
What? You do realize that amplitude vs frequency response is not only easy to measure, but Amir does it in nearly every review?Your measurements do not predict the mismatched levels. So if they don't predict mismatched levels, how do we know if those mismatches are consistent across frequency. We don't.
Your measurements do not predict the mismatched levels. So if they don't predict mismatched levels, how do we know if those mismatches are consistent across frequency. We don't.
The difference between us subjectivists and you objectivists, is that we'll put our money where our mouth is. When I mention that, I hear crickets, not, "you're on".
I think the difference is you put your mouth and your money where your brain should be. I don't even know how you could believe what posted about levels and measurements. You must not understand the very simplest ideas about measurements you see or refuse to read them.Your measurements do not predict the mismatched levels. So if they don't predict mismatched levels, how do we know if those mismatches are consistent across frequency. We don't.
The difference between us subjectivists and you objectivists, is that we'll put our money where our mouth is. When I mention that, I hear crickets, not, "you're on".
Judging from that poster's history he became slowly became more trolly until reaching what looks like the peak with that last message.I think the difference is you put your mouth and your money where your brain should be. I don't even know how you could believe what posted about levels and measurements. You must not understand the very simplest ideas about measurements you see or refuse to read them.
Child? That’s a truly constructive way to engage in a conversation. /sHey figure this out child.
If they measure the same, they should be level matched otherwise, you are wrong to say they sound the same because they measure the same.
Seriously if the objective tests cannot tell the dacs produce audibly different levels, which makes them sound different, then by definition, your measurements cannot tell the difference between two different sounding dacs.
... It is a waste of time chasing measurements to identify imagined differences that disappear in controlled tests listening tests, because we can be certain that these differences do not really exist.
Example, if you don't mind?We've known for 50 years or so that ABX can give false negatives for non-categorical sonic differences, like certain speech phonemes
Example, if you don't mind?
... which is of interest because we are looking at acoustic/continuous rather than categorical differentiation when we compare/investigate audio reproduction.... We suggest that the 4IAX discrimination procedure employed in the present study provides listeners with access to auditory information which is obscured by the traditional ABX procedure. Differences in discrimination may be due to the relatively greater demands placed on short-term memory in the ABX procedure which requires that Ss respond to the absolute rather than comparative differences between stimuli. Thus, listeners may be forced to rely on a phonetic rather than auditory coding in order to respond in the ABX discrimination test.
I think its wonderful that this dacs seems to be so good , for such a low price. I havent bought one though, because they still have lossy blutooth inputs which is something I dont understand - I would want a good implementation of AirPlay instead.Interesting that all these cheap Chinese dacs all must sound exactly the same, because the small differences are all far below the level we can hear. Why do you keep testing this? A race to the bottom to find the cheapest do-it-all dac? And then this forum will be closed?
Listen, I love to read every test report and even sometimes the comments. But someone must repeat that the truth out here is only a part of the lovely experience that hifi can be. The more expensive gear sometimes is tuned to the human ear. That can mean the test results are not as good as you would expect. That kind of gear is ridiculed here.
Has someone heard the difference between a Topping D90se and a RME ADI-2 fs? Think not. And everyone will jump on this statement because it is not triple-blind tested. Ofcourse not, because you can hear it easily yourself.
I love gear with excellent objective AND subjective test results. So I completely enjoy my Neumann KH420’s (relatively cheap in Europe). Problem is that you can hear everything you throw at it. So I prefer a warm sounding dac/pre. I bought the KH420’s after my experience with the K&H 300, good subjective reviews and the good objective review on this forum. But to find that warm sounding dac/pre-amplifier I had to look somewhere else.
50 to 60 year old research ...
... which has to do with speech (telephone ?) only.
Besides, one can also do blind level matched comparative testing spread over several days and as long as statistically valid attempts have been made do you reckon the results will be very different from AB(X) quick switching ?
The 2 times I did such long listening tests the results were very similar to that of quick AB.
What has looking at a DAC to do with speech intelligibility
So which DAC did you buy?Interesting that all these cheap Chinese dacs all must sound exactly the same, because the small differences are all far below the level we can hear. Why do you keep testing this? A race to the bottom to find the cheapest do-it-all dac? And then this forum will be closed?
Listen, I love to read every test report and even sometimes the comments. But someone must repeat that the truth out here is only a part of the lovely experience that hifi can be. The more expensive gear sometimes is tuned to the human ear. That can mean the test results are not as good as you would expect. That kind of gear is ridiculed here.
Has someone heard the difference between a Topping D90se and a RME ADI-2 fs? Think not. And everyone will jump on this statement because it is not triple-blind tested. Ofcourse not, because you can hear it easily yourself.
I love gear with excellent objective AND subjective test results. So I completely enjoy my Neumann KH420’s (relatively cheap in Europe). Problem is that you can hear everything you throw at it. So I prefer a warm sounding dac/pre. I bought the KH420’s after my experience with the K&H 300, good subjective reviews and the good objective review on this forum. But to find that warm sounding dac/pre-amplifier I had to look somewhere else.