Making further progress, TOPPING’s new flagship amplifier will be launched in late May!

[welwynnick]

Please clarify a little about class B, I have not seen an amplifier in class B so far.

A bit of a surprise to be honest. Most linear amplifiers are class AB, with good reason.

Class B means that the output transistors are biased symmetrically, so a null input signal sits on the crossover point between them, making small signals susceptible to crossover distortion. Topping must be very confident that they've minimised ALL distortion.

This reminds me of Benchmark's descriptions of their AHB2, about how their feed forward error correction "removed" cross-over distortion; they were emphatic that small signal linearity was of the utmost importance.

 

[antcollinet]

Class B means that the output transistors are biased symmetrically, so a null input signal sits on the crossover point between them, making small signals susceptible to crossover distortion. Topping must be very confident that they've minimised ALL distortion.

They make a big thing about their feedback design. If good enough, then I guess this can also correct crossover distortion in a pure class B design.

Certainly their published results for noise and disotortion are stellar. I'm looking forward to @Amir measuring one here.

Although I have to say that, for me, 600 notes for a stereo pair is a bit steep, when the performance - though stellar - is audibly probably no better than the Fosi V3 mono at half the price, and certainly no better (again audibly) than similarly powered hypex solutions at 25% less.

 

[Michal]

@EddNog
Sorry about that. It's a mistake.
I need to clarify here that the B100 is a Class B amplifier.

Does this mean that B200 is also class B?

 

[Deleted member 72219]

Does this mean that B200 is also class B?

I believe B100 and B200 are different technologies and topologies. B200's design is based off LA90 (Discrete?), whereas B100 is based off of A70 Pro.

-Ed

 

[Deleted member 72219]

They make a big thing about their feedback design. If good enough, then I guess this can also correct crossover distortion in a pure class B design.

Certainly their published results for noise and disotortion are stellar. I'm looking forward to @Amir measuring one here.

Although I have to say that, for me, 600 notes for a stereo pair is a bit steep, when the performance - though stellar - is audibly probably no better than the Fosi V3 mono at half the price, and certainly no better (again audibly) than similarly powered hypex solutions at 25% less.

One (small) advantage B100 has over V3 Mono is that B100 has greater gain variability, especially for balanced connection users. I have been looking for an amp with this performance with lower gain than V3 Mono that does not rely on volume attenuation (e.g. ZA3). The B100 will do this.

As for the reason why, it has to do with me relying on the DAC inside my R6 Pro II DAP and also using the DAP to control volume. If I use an amplifier with excessive gain (such as ZA3 with volume dial maxed out), there is a strange buzz/hum emitted whenever the DAC is not actively decoding material (so when the DAP is stopped/paused, and even momentarily between tracks). Once I lower the gain at the amp (in my case, by turning the volume dials on my ZA3s to 12:00 position), I can set gain to High and also raise the volume higher on the DAP, and that weird & distracting inter-track hum gets pushed below audible noise floor.

The other option (which I am relying on temporarily until my B100s come in) is to utilize the passive preamp in my Schiit Freya+ to control volume and keep the gain and volume maxed in the DAP, but ideally I would like to eliminate this unit entirely from the chain and take advantage of the volume control in the DAP (which, don't worry, has a user-adjustable cap).

The B100's lower gain settings/options (which do not rely on a variable attenuator) would be the ideal solution for this, allowing me to max out the digital domain dynamic range while still utilizing it for volume control, and minimizes the amount of equipment in the chain.

-Ed

 

[antcollinet]

One (small) advantage B100 has over V3 Mono is that B100 has greater gain variability, especially for balanced connection users. I have been looking for an amp with this performance with lower gain than V3 Mono that does not rely on volume attenuation (e.g. ZA3). The B100 will do this.

As for the reason why, it has to do with me relying on the DAC inside my R6 Pro II DAP and also using the DAP to control volume. If I use an amplifier with excessive gain (such as ZA3 with volume dial maxed out), there is a strange buzz/hum emitted whenever the DAC is not actively decoding material (so when the DAP is stopped/paused, and even momentarily between tracks). Once I lower the gain at the amp (in my case, by turning the volume dials on my ZA3s to 12:00 position), I can set gain to High and also raise the volume higher on the DAP, and that weird & distracting inter-track hum gets pushed below audible noise floor.

The other option (which I am relying on temporarily until my B100s come in) is to utilize the passive preamp in my Schiit Freya+ to control volume and keep the gain and volume maxed in the DAP, but ideally I would like to eliminate this unit entirely from the chain and take advantage of the volume control in the DAP (which, don't worry, has a user-adjustable cap).

The B100's lower gain settings/options (which do not rely on a variable attenuator) would be the ideal solution for this, allowing me to max out the digital domain dynamic range while still utilizing it for volume control, and minimizes the amount of equipment in the chain.

-Ed

You can always use an attenuator pad on the input to a higher gain amp to (effectively) reduce the gain. If you are a wizz with a soldering iron, you can make one with 3 resistors - which can even be built into the shell of an XLR cable.

But I'm sure the B100s will be great - and there is something about having gear designed with that much care towards perfection.

 

[Deleted member 72219]

You can always use an attenuator pad on the input to a higher gain amp to (effectively) reduce the gain. If you are a wizz with a soldering iron, you can make one with 3 resistors - which can even be built into the shell of an XLR cable.

But I'm sure the B100s will be great - and there is something about having gear designed with that much care towards perfection.

Yeah you don’t want to see me with a soldering iron. ROFL

 

[valcon]

I guess mine might sound as a stupid question. I follow this forum to have valuable and useful information but I'm still quite "illiterate" on the topic. At present I'm using a miniDSP SHD as a preamp and a Yamaha RN803 as a poweramp, although it's actually an integrated amp. I might upgrade to a proper poweramp, such as an Audiophonics HPA-S400ET or a NAD C298. Now I might include in my list these new Topping amps. I'm just unsure whether the fact that they don't double the power from 8 ohms to 4 ohms is a bad sign of some sort or it is something of no importance. Any opinion about my choice between those three amplifiers would be welcome. Thank you!

 

[Deleted member 72219]

I guess mine might sound as a stupid question. I follow this forum to have valuable and useful information but I'm still quite "illiterate" on the topic. At present I'm using a miniDSP SHD as a preamp and a Yamaha RN803 as a poweramp, although it's actually an integrated amp. I might upgrade to a proper poweramp, such as an Audiophonics HPA-S400ET or a NAD C298. Now I might include in my list these new Topping amps. I'm just unsure whether the fact that they don't double the power from 8 ohms to 4 ohms is a bad sign of some sort or it is something of no importance. Any opinion about my choice between those three amplifiers would be welcome. Thank you!

An important question to ask before providing a firm answer is: what speakers will you be driving with these?

How amplifiers respond to different ohm loads varies, especially when looking at different frequencies. It should come as no surprise that an amplifier can’t provide exactly double the power at half the impedance; this should not be alarming.

-Ed

 

[valcon]

An important question to ask before providing a firm answer is: what speakers will you be driving with these?

How amplifiers respond to different ohm loads varies, especially when looking at different frequencies. It should come as no surprise that an amplifier can’t provide exactly double the power at half the impedance; this should not be alarming.

-Ed

My speakers are Kef LS50 Meta, which have quite pronounced impedance swings (minimum impedance being below 4 ohms). I know that many amps do not double power at half the impedance. What strikes me is that this Topping doesn't even show the slightest increase in power.

 

[Deleted member 72219]

My speakers are Kef LS50 Meta, which have quite pronounced impedance swings (minimum impedance being below 4 ohms). I know that many amps does not double power at half the impedance. What strikes me is that this Topping doesn't even show the slightest increase in power.

It’s been mentioned by others that it’s likely power supply-/current-limited.

I have the same exact speakers and my B100s come in on Tuesday, if you’d like to wait a couple of days for my feedback.

-Ed

 

[Labjr]

Distortion rises sharply over 50W. I don't imagine this is going to be a powerhouse.

 

[Deleted member 72219]

Distortion rises sharply over 50W. I don't imagine this is going to be a powerhouse.

Right. I listen around 70-80dB about 10 feet away in a medium size room with a subwoofer for extension.

-Ed

 

[jcheavymetal]

Right. I listen around 70-80dB about 10 feet away in a medium size room with a subwoofer for extension.

-Ed

My setup is much like yours, LS50 meta with KC62 in a medium size room amplified by a Rega Elicit-R, and I'm also interested in the B100s. Looking forward your impressions.

 

[Sokel]

Right. I listen around 70-80dB about 10 feet away in a medium size room with a subwoofer for extension.

-Ed

70-80dB what?Average?Max?Peaks?
And at what weighting?A,C or Z?

Cause there can be vast differences between all that.

Look at the difference between all that here:




(A) weighting




(C) weighting

The above is the exact same song at the exact same listening level only with different weighting.
You can also see the differences between average level (2 purple lines),max level (yellow line) and peak (red line,always at (Z) weighting ) .

Edit:and then there's works like this:



At what level would you say you listen to it?

 

[Deleted member 72219]

70-80dB what?Average?Max?Peaks?
And at what weighting?A,C or Z?

Cause there can be vast differences between all that.

Look at the difference between all that here:


View attachment 389692

(A) weighting


View attachment 389693

(C) weighting

The above is the exact same song at the exact same listening level only with different weighting.
You can also see the differences between average level (2 purple lines),max level (yellow line) and peak (red line,always at (Z) weighting ) .

A-weighted average. Peaks 80-90dB.

-Ed

 

[Deleted member 72219]

My setup is much like yours, LS50 meta with KC62 in a medium size room amplified by a Rega Elicit-R, and I'm also interested in the B100s. Looking forward your impressions.

How do you like your KC62? Is it easy to get it to blend with the Metas?

-Ed

 

[Sokel]

A-weighted average. Peaks 80-90dB.

-Ed

(A) weighted 80dB average can't be 80-90dB (Z) peaks,even at the most crippled recordings.
Max,maybe,peaks,no.

 

[Deleted member 72219]

(A) weighted 80dB average can't be 80-90dB peaks,even at the most crippled recordings.
Max,maybe,peaks,no.

I’ll go take another measurement later when I’m home listening. I took a very short snippet last time. Usually more concerned with enjoying my music and not faffing with my sound meter app on my phone.

And if that thing is not accurate enough for you, feel free to ignore my posts or shun me. Whatever you prefer, typical ASR response to what is considered substandard information quality around here.

-Ed

 

[Sokel]

I’ll go take another measurement later when I’m home listening. I took a very short snippet last time. Usually more concerned with enjoying my music and not faffing with my sound meter app on my phone.

And if that thing is not accurate enough for you, feel free to ignore my posts or shun me. Whatever you prefer, typical ASR response to what is considered substandard information quality around here.

-Ed

Use Decibel X app if possible,it lets you toggle between max and peaks.

(enjoying the music is better when you have it's full extend at hand,just saying)

Edit:The above song (first two charts) is Amir's reference bass song "Fading Sun " by Terje Isungset,try that if you find it.