Making further progress, TOPPING’s new flagship amplifier will be launched in late May!

[Jon L]

B200 Review

That review mentions B200 bass has room for improvement and speculated that better power supplies may help. However, looks like B200 comes with 64V 4A SMPS, which is going to be difficult to find better alternatives unless someone wants to spend $$$ on some linear power Bench supply or something.

 

[Tangram]

That review mentions B200 bass has room for improvement and speculated that better power supplies may help. However, looks like B200 comes with 64V 4A SMPS, which is going to be difficult to find better alternatives unless someone wants to spend $$$ on some linear power Bench supply or something.

Oh come on , this is just one man’s drole opinion with his particular loudspeaker !

 

[antcollinet]

That review mentions B200 bass has room for improvement

Typical youtube bullshit

 

[Sokel]

After all our own markets are flooded with uncertified power supply’s / chargers , etc etc….

Not in EU,fines are to a point to kill a business if repetitive.
And then it's the insurance agents who love finding stuff like that in order not to pay for a fire.

Don't know what happens importing them as an individual though.

 

[Parts]

It's a shame this could not have been designed to simply be powered directly. Why does it need to be built with an external power brick, pretty sure this simply takes it off a vast majority of possible buyers lists.

 

[IanRoberts]

It's a shame this could not have been designed to simply be powered directly. Why does it need to be built with an external power brick, pretty sure this simply takes it off a vast majority of possible buyers lists.

I would imagine the external power supply helps simplify the design process, cut down on noise and heat issues. Plus it makes a much smaller form factor. I have 2 LA90Ds and I just velcroed the power supplies to the back of my entertainment system to keep it all looking neat.

 

[Tangram]

I see they do a linear power supply P50 that’s in an aluminium case and is ce certified as it on audiophonics, so it’s not out of the way to provide one for the M200 IMHO.

 

[antcollinet]

I see they do a linear power supply P50 that’s in an aluminium case and is ce certified as it on audiophonics, so it’s not out of the way to provide one for the M200 IMHO.

That is a very low power PSU - a completelly different beast compared to what would be needed for the B200.


But in any case - what is the point. These amps are already so good it is not possible for anyone to hear the distortion or noise. Using a 'better' PSU (even if it improved measured performance - which it almost certainly wouldnt) can't get better than "inaudible"

 

[babadono]

Would a few more volts but mainly more output current give this amp more headroom? Or are they pushing it to its limit already?

 

[antcollinet]

Would a few more volts but mainly more output current give this amp more headroom? Or are they pushing it to its limit already?

Only the design engineers would know the answer to that question. But why would they limit the power out of the amp for the sake of a few more volts or amps from the PSU?

So I would expect it is already pushed to its (safe) limits.

 

[Sokel]

I see they do a linear power supply P50 that’s in an aluminium case and is ce certified as it on audiophonics, so it’s not out of the way to provide one for the M200 IMHO.

I would prefer ENEC (European Norms Electrical Certification) but admittedly this is hard to find in such stuff.
As with measurements,third party cert is always better.

 

[babadono]

Only the design engineers would know the answer to that question. But why would they limit the power out of the amp for the sake of a few more volts or amps from the PSU?

So I would expect it is already pushed to its (safe) limits.

Roger...just was surprised I could only get 130W out of it (RMS) I do not understand or pretend to understand what or how they test at supposed 200W. I am OLD and old school, back in the day when McIntosh stated their MC2105 put out 105 watts a channel it did with probably 2 or 3 dB dynamic(transient) headroom.

 

[antcollinet]

Roger...just was surprised I could only get 130W out of it (RMS) I do not understand or pretend to understand what or how they test at supposed 200W. I am OLD and old school, back in the day when McIntosh stated their MC2105 put out 105 watts a channel it did with probably 2 or 3 dB dynamic(transient) headroom.

Was that clipping at that power? At what output voltage? Or current? Driven from what input? What input voltage? What gain? All measured by what?

If you have halfway reasonable measurement gear it should be possible to work out what is going on.

EDIT - or it is possible you just have a faulty amp.

 

[Sokel]

putting out 130 watts into 8 ohms for 5-10 minutes.

Usual power measurements (as shown in most reviews) are less than a second in duration.
Outputting a continuous 130W for ten min is more than ok,a lot of amps would want to be able to do that.

(although the new FTC rule demands that)
((and yes,it's me talking who don't give free pass to nothing,but truth must be told))

 

[babadono]

Was that clipping at that power? At what output voltage? Or current? Driven from what input? What input voltage? What gain? All measured by what?

If you have halfway reasonable measurement gear it should be possible to work out what is going on.

EDIT - or it is possible you just have a faulty amp.

If faulty I've got twins (2 failing exactly the same way). This was just below clipping and or nasty breakup on rising/falling edge of output sine wave. Into an 8 ohm dummy load built with those gold brick resistors. Wattage was calculated P=E^2/R So about 32 volts RMS. Input was from a signal generator through a THAT Corp OutSmarts demo board that takes single ended input from signal generator and produces a balanced differential output. I cannot recall the exact input voltage but do remember doing the math to verify the gain set with Low/High gain setting switch is correct.

 

[Aokman]

1kHz at 5W and 4 ohms load is NOT an "industry standard". It never has been.

The closest we got to an "industry standard" test was 1W (2.83V) into 8 Ohms and that was for running FR plots, filter analysis etc. Good manufacturers will also specify the FR deviation at full rated power.

Example of an Accuphase:
View attachment 375228

Amplifiers are properly rated from 250mW to rated power, across a specified bandwidth (usually 20Hz-20kHz) with a distortion figure which is not exceeded anywhere (that means at any frequency or power level within the specified limits), usually both channels driven into both 4 and 8 ohms.

Example of current model McIntosh:
View attachment 375227

Do you see ANY mention of 1kHz/5W/4R? Anywhere? Nope.

1KHz has always been a cop out for poorly designed products to make their specs look better than they really are, since the dawn of high fidelity. Nothing has changed, it still is.

Thats garbage lol, never seen other manufacturers quote their figures from such a low wattage. It is normally done at 1Khz @ rated power and weighting which is putting your thumb on the scales also lol.

Mcintosh of all companies lies through their ass constantly and don’t remotely resemble what the company was back in the day.

A lot of older power amps struggle with distortion at such low power figures. Even 1W can be difficult due to noise floor etc. I agree that 5W isn’t industry standard but more relevant for the real world than rating distortion at max power.

 

[restorer-john]

Thats garbage lol, never seen other manufacturers quote their figures from such a low wattage. It is normally done at 1Khz @ rated power and weighting which is putting your thumb on the scales also lol.

Mcintosh of all companies lies through their ass constantly and don’t remotely resemble what the company was back in the day.

A lot of older power amps struggle with distortion at such low power figures. Even 1W can be difficult due to noise floor etc. I agree that 5W isn’t industry standard but more relevant for the real world than rating distortion at max power.

Your comment is sadly just utter "garbage". Frequency response for amplifiers has ALWAYS been quoted WRT 1W@8R. PBW is -3dB.

It also betrays your complete lack of understanding and shows you've never actually measured an amplifier for distortion in your entire life.

 

[Aokman]

Your comment is sadly just utter "garbage". Frequency response for amplifiers has ALWAYS been quoted WRT 1W@8R. PBW is -3dB.

It also betrays your complete lack of understanding and shows you've never actually measured an amplifier for distortion in your entire life.

LOL I measure every vintage amp I restore… They do not quote at 1W… its at rated power…

 

[restorer-john]

LOL I measure every vintage amp I restore… They do not quote at 1W… its at rated power…

Read the post before answering. It'll help you to not look like a complete clown.

 

[totti1965]

iiWi reviews just released a YouTube video - he is quite enthusiastic and he will buy a pair for his own:

The datasheed of Topping B200 (measured with the Audio Precision APX 555, the same that Amir uses), shows that the SINAD of the B200 is 2 dB better than the SINAD of the LA 90 Discrete, 122.25 dB instead of 120 dB. This is not audible, because everything over 116 dB is simply perfect and it is physically impossible to hear more dynamic. The physic simply just does not let it happen!
But it’s a remarkable laboratory record. They also claimed a bandwith of more than 100 kHz (just minus 0.4 dB at 100 kHz). So it seems to be an increadible „quick“ amplifier, like the Metaxas Amps, the Stax Monoblocks or the Spectral amps in the eighty’s:

B200 - TOPPING AUDIO

www.toppingaudio.com