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LS50 S2 Stand Questions: (1) How to fill with Sand (2) Should I mount or not?

Mehdiem

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Hi. I recently purchased S2 stands for my LS50 Meta. I have two questions.

Question 1
(A) I am planning to fill the stand column with dry sand. I’m wondering how much sand (i.e. weight in kilogram or lbs) would be ideal for each individual stand? I purchased 20lbs dry sand from Pet Smart.

(B) Each stand has two column that are separated with a narrow wall, and both columns can be filled (Please refer to picture attached). One column is narrower (A) than the other (B). I am wondering how should I manage to put enough amount of sand in both columns so that both are levelled? If I go by weight, the narrow column will be filled to a higher level and wider column will be filled to a lower level, as a result they won’t be balanced and I’m concerned that the lack of balance will impact the idea sound. In that case what’s your suggestion? Or is that even matter than one column is filled higher than the other?

Question 2
From sound perspective, should I mount the LS50META speakers to the stand or place them as usual with their own rubber feet? What I’m confused about is that, I see these days ISO-acoustic style pads and legs are used by purple, and this appears to be the opposite of mounting. So, if those pads that allow free movement are improving sound quality, how mounting speakers which eliminate any movement could be beneficial?
 

DVDdoug

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I doubt there's enough external vibration to make any audible sound, especially when drowned-out by the sound coming directly from the speakers. If you fill the bottom half (or some fraction of the bottom) it should help with stability.

I've never seen measurements or blind listening tests for stands but Ethan Winer measured some isolators and found no significant difference.

But the resonance inside the tube depends on the length of the non-filled part of the tube so in theory you might want different depths of sand so everything doesn't resonate at the same frequency.
 
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Mehdiem

Mehdiem

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I doubt there's enough external vibration to make any audible sound, especially when drowned-out by the sound coming directly from the speakers. If you fill the bottom half (or some fraction of the bottom) it should help with stability.

I've never seen measurements or blind listening tests for stands but Ethan Winer measured some isolators and found no significant difference.

But the resonance inside the tube depends on the length of the non-filled part of the tube so in theory you might want different depths of sand so everything doesn't resonate at the same frequency.
Interesting view about height of the filler!

What about mounting speaker to stand with screws, does that provide any sonic benefit? Or disadvantages?
 

fpitas

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I'd use rubber feet.
 

Tatr76

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So filled the stands I have to the top with dry sand, actually baked it to remove all moisture as used sandpit sand. Not sure on accoustic benefits but they are sure sturdy and can take a pretty good whack without budging, the main reason why I did it as have pets.
 

krabapple

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Wouldn't lead shot work 'even better', and be less likely to leak out?
 
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Mehdiem

Mehdiem

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Wouldn't lead shot work 'even better', and be less likely to leak out?
Funny enough, I asked my seller for KEF inert filler, and he honestly told me “just use sand, everybody uses sand!”
 

krabapple

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I’ve made my own stands for the LS50’s using PVC cylinders filled with concrete: sound as if they are ‘fixed in space’.

The speakers sound 'fixed in space'? As opposed to what?
 

Tatr76

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Wouldn't lead shot work 'even better', and be less likely to leak out?
Anecdotally heard lead shot can leach into environment and be harmfull. Even if not true sand is very cheap alternative to lead and inert fillers sold for the purpose.
 

Tatr76

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Wouldn't lead shot work 'even better', and be less likely to leak
Use my ls50 as spare system in dinning room, sand has not leaked. As say not primarily done for accoustics but if there was something to that lead or purpose made inert accoustic filler is denser. I will leave others to decide if any benefit.
 

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tifune

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I have the S2's and I've used them with LS50 Meta, R3, and other silly stuff like KH120 and KH310. Theyre definitely designed to bolt direct to LS50 line. knowing what we do about Kef, and the price point of S2, it's difficult to believe there's any negative impact to be had by using as intended.

If you really need something to get past the psychology of it, or just add to the aesthetic, the S2 has carpet spikes you could use with IsoPucks.
 
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Mehdiem

Mehdiem

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I have the S2's and I've used them with LS50 Meta, R3, and other silly stuff like KH120 and KH310. Theyre definitely designed to bolt direct to LS50 line. knowing what we do about Kef, and the price point of S2, it's difficult to believe there's any negative impact to be had by using as intended.

If you really need something to get past the psychology of it, or just add to the aesthetic, the S2 has carpet spikes you could use with IsoPucks.
Interesting that I had the same logic, when purchasing them (told myself that KEF engineers intended this for bolting and they are not crazy to design it otherwise).

Background;

Prior to this stand I had B&W STAV24 S2. Once I placed my LS50META with original padding on S2 I was amazed, how significant of an improvement I noticed. As though, I upgraded my speakers, or my amp. It’s fair to say, maybe a part of it was due to stand height which is about 2” higher than B&W, so it brought the speakers to my ear level. After that I bolted them imagining that I would get even a better quality after bolting, but later I felt I am hearing a less perfect sound. The soundstage is still amazing, but I feel that I hear some reverb or reflection. Maybe it’s all placebo, I don’t deny that. I’m here to confirm that I might be wrong. I had a similar experience before, when I used bluetac under my speakers, but felt that the quality was diminished and after a few days, I removed the bluetac and I felt speakers are playing more effortless. Not sure, maybe this is also a placebo.?
 
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Mehdiem

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What do you mean with ‘original rubber fit’? The LS50s are fitted with 4 screws to the stands and the floorplate has 4 spikes.
From rubber feet (sorry for misspelling) mean those round small rubbers that come with LS50Meta to be used when you don’t bolt them. What I meant was that do you see any difference in sound quality when you bolt them vs. when you don’t bolt and place them on the stand standing on their own rubber padding.
 

Martinvb

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From rubber feet (sorry for misspelling) mean those round small rubbers that come with LS50Meta to be used when you don’t bolt them. What I meant was that do you see any difference in sound quality when you bolt them vs. when you don’t bolt and place them on the stand standing on their own rubber padding.
I must have tried that, but I don’t remember any difference in sound quality.
 

Jim Shaw

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Back when I first installed a pair of Klipsch RP600Ms on Pangea stands, I noticed more than one annoyance:

1. The speakers had an annoying resonance or sibilance when playing a string section (violins, violas, cellos, not electric guitars so much). Hard to cure except with replacement.
2. There seemed to me an annoying noise coming from the stands, below the speakers-- high-pitched resonances. Once you heard it, you just couldn't unhear it. Filling all four columns of each stand with kitty litter solved it. It wasn't about adding weight; it was about damping the vibrations of the steel channels when they sang along with the speakers (in their own raspy key). The problem was mostly solved (with the stands) and further helped by placing foam pads just under the speakers. No more annoying audible noise from the stands.

I tried several ways to alleviate the raspiness of the playback of string sections, finally settling on disconnecting the Klipsches. They are now doing an acceptable job at very low SPLs in the bedroom.

The annoying speakers were replaced by Elac DBR62s. Total joy. Orchestral instruments now sound very much like themselves.
(I wish they played about 10 dB louder.)
 
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