Got the Green Light from the Boss (the Wife): Please Help Me Pick Gear for My Home Theater and Music Room!

[c.siedlecki]

FYI This hits in October, has Dirac DSP and can manage two subs when you are ready to add another. I am eyeing it as an up grade myself. Also, the RZ50 is on sale for $800 in couple of places

Onkyo TX-RZ30

New AVR coming.. https://www.ravepubs.com/onkyo-details-new-9-2-channel-tx-rz30-av-receiver-could-be-used-as-av-processor-for-rooms-too/

www.audiosciencereview.com

Do you know if it will support Dynamic EQ or its only technology available to Denon?

 

[Timcognito]

Do you know if it will support Dynamic EQ or its only technology available to Denon?

Someone else will have to answer, as I too am just getting up to speed with new stuff and have a10 yr old AVR. There some links in that post with more specs.

 

[ryanmh1]

Dynamic EQ is Denon only. Get a refurb avr-x3800h from accessories4less. You want xt32. X2800h doesn't have it. Refurb still comes with warranty, albeit possibly shorter. The Klipsch will be immensely more satisfying.

Q950 refurb is 1400 a pair, fyi. A4l. Those are all factory units. White is available. Then you can use that to get a nc252mp or nc502mp from buckeye or vtv. I do agree with the idea of a center if aesthetics permit and will be used often by x2 people or more for tv, as someone else suggested. Then you might as well just get those surrounds...

 

[Holmz]

First and foremost, I’ve been a long-time supporter of Audio Science Review, avidly reading the forums and especially appreciating Amir's work. After pretty much five years of saving I am finally ready to building my first proper hi-fi system, and there’s no one I trust more for advice, so I’m turning to the community for guidance before I invest my hard-earned money.

I have two rooms where I would like to upgrade my music equipment and finally start to truly enjoy music. I want to keep things "reasonable”, lets let’s say under $10,000 for the total project. I can go a little over if it’s worth it, and I’m open to adding on overtime, but ideally, I’d like to stick within that budget. I also have young kids, so I can’t dip into their college funds!

Here’s my setup:

1. Upstairs living room(~400 square feet):
   • It will serve as a home theater space and for casual background music while dining and or doing living room stuff.
   • The decor calls for a “modern” aesthetic, preferably no wood veneer. I kid of fancy white veneer, not sure how well it will hold to my kids fingers...
   • The living room is shared with the kitchen, so the wife-approval factor is important.
   • I’m thinking of starting with a 2.1 channel system and eventually expanding to 5.1.2 once the kids are a little older.
2. Downstairs space(~250 square feet):
   • This is my more relaxed, dedicated music space for hi-fi listening and chilling.
   • I want to use bookshelf speakers and experiment with speaker positioning and room treatments.
   • I plan on tinkering with music and may try my hand at building speakers and electronics in the future.
   • The goal is to inspire my whole family to really enjoy music and my kids to tinker with electronics
   • I’d prefer separate components here, so no integrated gear.
   • I will be doing some A\B testing

Some notes about my preferences:

• I came to conclusion that I don’t believe in analog, so just for sonic performance I’m not interested in vinyl or tube gear.
• My music tastes are diverse, though I’ve started leaning towards more chill genres as I get older.
• I base decisions on scientific scrutiny but understand that music is also about emotion and enjoyment and visual cues.
• I like to make decisions once, and stick to them. Unless I am unhappy with the performance or my life circumstances change, I plan on keeping the system for the long haul !

Current setup:

• Klipsch floor RP-260F speakers, and RP-450C center channel powered by outdated Yamaha RX-V465 receiver (The speakers are kind meee but I believe it’s due the poor receiver, but I am very happy with center channel so I will most likely keep it).
• Vandersteen Model 3 with two PS Audio 100 mono-blocs and a Topping E50 DAC (This a gear I have inherited, and really got me into hi-fi but its just take too much space, and I would like to upgrade it to something better).
• Emotiva B1+ with X5 8 sub (which I enjoy quite a bit as a desktop gear, and I love the value factor) powered by AIYIMA D05 Bluetooth 5.0 Power Amplifier.

Nice. A vandy owner here as well. And they also have a small forum.
You can update to something different, and maybe better, but maybe not better.
Or you can also move them on… but you have them and can use them to compare to other speakers. So they make a good starting point IMO.

​

---

Here are the options I’m considering for each room, but I am open to your feedback:

Home Theater (Upstairs)

• Option A:
  • Revel Performa3 F206 – $2,695 (or KEF R3 Meta with Stands)
  • Onkyo TX-RZ50 – $999
  • SVS SB-1000 Pro – $699
  • Total: $4,393
• Option B:
  • Klipsch Reference Premiere RP-8000F II – $1,200 (or KEF Q750 – $1,500)
  • Onkyo TX-RZ50 – $999
  • SVS SB-1000 Pro – $699
  • Total: $2,898 (money leftover I would have for a new TV )

Music Room (Downstairs)

• Option A:
  • Topping E50 DAC - Free
  • MoFi SourcePoint 8 Bookshelf Loudspeaker – $1,999
  • GR Research Upgrade Kit? – $800 (upgrade down the line)
  • Schiit Vidar II – $800 (open to alternatives)
  • Rythmik Audio F12SE – $1,259
  • Total: $4,058
• Option B:
  • Topping E50 DAC - Free
  • KEF R3 Meta – $2,200 (I’m really into KEF speakers)
  • Schiit Vidar II – $800
  • Rythmik Audio F12SE – $1,259
  • Total: $4,259

Other tempting options (but hard to justify the price/value ratio):

• Børresen X2 – $8,800 (I was extremely impressive with the performance of these bookshelf speakers at AXPONA 2024)
• Børresen X1 – $5,500 (Never listened to them and they are only 50 watts)
• RME ADI-2 DAC FS – $1,299
• miniDSP Flex HTx – $1,000
• MoFi Electronics SourcePoint 888 – $5,000
• KEF R11 Meta – $6,500
• NAD C298 - $2400
• Benchmark AHB2 Power Amplifier – $3,500
• McIntosh MC152 Power Amplifier (solid-state) – $5,500
• HiFi Rose RA280 – $2,995 (though it’s integrated but maybe worth upgrading)
• Caladan Open Baffle - $3000
• Revel M126Be - $4400
• Parasound 21+ Stereo Power Amplifier (is it better than Schiit Vidar II ?)
• Parasound 23+ Stereo Power Amplifier - $1900
• Rotel RB-1582 MkII - $2199
• PS Audio Stellar S300 - $2,299

I’ll tell you what I did after getting the Haus-Boss nod to make the system sound OK.
I suggest that we set up a HT system and she said lets just go get a sound bar and not make a “meal of it”.
We went to the place where we got the OLED TV to listen to a Klipsch sound bar, and she literally stepped back from the shrill sound, and said, OK make it into a project.

We had moved interstate, and the new room is adjacent to the dining room and opens into “sun room” leading to the front door.
So our room has to do it all… 2 channel and HT.
The two channel side is super solid.

I decided to just get a Vandersteen center channel and the two surrounds for the back L/R.
All that gear was obtained used.
The VCC5 was sent to Amir and tested, and pretty much received low marks.
In any case the one thing that center channel should do it throw a wide beam without have beam forming nulls which it does really well.
If it is just 2 people then most discount a 4.x.x system, but they generally work pretty good, compared t using the run of the mill sideways MTM center channels.
I would suggest trying it.
The Haus-Boss of course does not like the look of the @c and model 3s are generally considered lower WAF.
Initially I did hook them up as 2 channel with the TV going through the preamp, and she said, then the TV sounds great, move the speakers into the garage.
I hit the preamp’s remote to off and turned the TV speaker on.
She said how are the speakers sounding like they come out of the TV… (PFM)
It is easy to just try it and see as you already have the gear.

In any case got the used center channel.
Some kind French fellow on here posted the PEQ settings to make the frequency response flatter.
Vandy, Thiels Dunlavy all went/go-for time domain response… But with modern HT/AVRs and AVPs, they do DDSP and room correction so I am not stressed too much with frequency response.

Picked up a used Lyngdorf MP-50 AVP (so an AVR with out amps.
The run XLRs to the back and center channels and whacked some cheap AIYAMA amps for the surrounds.
The main LF and RF go through “better” amps.
And it is easier to run 20 feet of XLRs under the floor crawl space and park each amp at the surround channel locations.
Also have an RME ADi-2 Pro, but usually just stream through the Lyngdorf from the TV, or with an ipad through the TV’s Bluetooth… but the MP-50 also co do Roon.

It seems like a total overspend to have the MP-50 and then route the signal to $70 Class-D amps, but the other half likes how it sounds now.


Your problems are a lot different with two rooms.
IMO: I would focus on one room or the other.

In general you are going to get the most bang for the buck with speakers.
However if the AVR is old, then it is likely you will get more bang for the buck with some built in room correction DSP.
That can suck up a lot of the budget.
$10k can get tight… hence going big on the speakers and/or AVP and cheaping out on the amps might be an option to consider.

Personally I would be sticking the Vandy’s in one room or the other for now.
Probably the music room.
And maybe add one of their subs if you can find one in the wild.
You already have them and the PS amps, and Topping, so you are pretty much set.

Or get a Lyngdorf TDAI integrated and some legacy speaker like a Walsh Ohm, or more modern like March Audio Sonitvias or others that Erin and Amir have rated hightly..(Kefs I recall)
If you are not married to analogue then the modern amps give you the DSP.
Or get powered speakers and run them with XLRs…

Whatever you do will likely sound good to great and the option quickly expand with powered speakers.
Personally I don’t like to keep spending money so usually try to go slow enough to do it where I doubt I’ll need to “upgrade” poon… and those cycles are usually 20 years apart… and a lot of my gear is acquired used.

My goal is to give you some ideas and advice is to suggest that you do not go too fast. And try to demo things if you have that option.

 

[Peluvius]

After you have decided where you will be listening and where the gear will go (maybe already), I would have a think about room treatment and acoustics as well as the gear. The gear is more fun to buy but the acoustics can (probably will) have a big impact on your experience.

 

[dualazmak]

Hello OP @c.siedlecki,
After you would (almost?) complete your two system setups, you will be cordially invited to the bellow thread;
Let's share diagrams (and photos) of our total physical audio system and the whole signal path, with a few words and/or links

 

[VeerK]

Allocate the largest portion of your budget to speakers, and try to get electronics that will allow you to apply DSP in the digital chain. You can find speakers that are active and passive and their scores with EQ applied at spinorama.org, which is run by a member here.

 

[c.siedlecki]

After you have decided where you will be listening and where the gear will go (maybe already), I would have a think about room treatment and acoustics as well as the gear. The gear is more fun to buy but the acoustics can (probably will) have a big impact on your experience.

In the music room, I am planning to add some acoustic treatment, though it is not part of the budget I have designated for the gear. On the back wall (behind the speakers), I am building a wall next to the garage, which already has mineral wool between the studs. I will be adding Rockwool insulation and wood cladding. This should help manage some of the reflective frequency distortion and make the space look better (its half level basement). I also plan on building a room wide massive bookshelf behind a listening position to deal with for some of the reflections. About the early side reflection, I have just heard a very good argument, that our brain is used to it, and its very good at dealing with it, because we as a species have evolved in the spaces to deal with it. About the ceiling it’s going to be a tough cookie, especially in order to get a good result we are supposed to hand the treatment couple inches below the surface of the ceiling.

So I have actually spent hundreds of hours researching acoustics, including learning from Dr. Floyd Toole, a pioneer in speaker measurement and room acoustics, and I found it extremely intriguing and fascinating. After diving deep into this, I have come to some important conclusions. Sure, room treatment and speaker placement are very important, but a well-designed speaker should sound good in most rooms. It feels old-school to adjust a living space to fit speakers instead of the other way around, especially now that in the last ten years technology has advanced so much.

That’s why Digital Signal Processing speakers are getting more popular. As everybody at the forums knows DSP helps speakers adapt to the room by tweaking the sound electronically, at least that is a notion, personally I cant wait to play with it. But no matter how much tech we throw at it, a low-frequency treatment is still tricky because of how sound waves behave. Low frequencies, like 100 Hz with an 11-foot wavelength or 20 Hz with a 60-foot wavelength, are tough to control in normal-sized rooms. I still don’t understand the part of the math, and everything that that comes to electric but to control placements we are supposed take a quarter of the wavelength and try to adjust a distance based on that. But are we supposed to adjust to lets say 10Hz or the 100Hz, or are we supposed to be like particles in quantum physics, existing in multiple places at the same time? And that is also where the room modes come in, when sound waves bounce around, certain frequencies get amplified or canceled out, causing uneven bass in different spots of the room. This is something that is more reasonable to deal with when it come to room treatments.

Moving forward from what I have understood a good way to deal with this is by simply using a bookshelf speakers paired with separate subwoofers. If you cross the subwoofers below 100 Hz, they become omnidirectional, so you don’t have to place them where the main speakers are. This gives more flexibility and handles bass better in smaller rooms. I plan on experimenting with the notion and even add bass traps in the corners later to help tame those low-end issues as well.

Another cool topic is speaker directivity. Modern speakers are designed to spread sound evenly across the room, so everyone hears a balanced sound no matter where they’re sitting. This wide dispersion helps make the sound feel right, even if the room acoustics aren’t perfect.

That is why I have picked coaxial speakers, such as MoFi or KEF, since they have a design where the tweeter is placed in the center of the woofer. This allows for the sound to originate from a single point source, which can improve imaging and phase coherence, making the audio more focused and natural. I might be just eating my own foot, but based on the research I have done it looks the most sense to me. And hey its also the least expensive which works for me too.

On top of all that to just add to the conversation, there’s the concept of psychoacoustics, how our brain processes sound. It’s a big factor in how we perceive audio. DSP can help fix room issues, but our brains also play tricks on us. For example, we’re less sensitive to where low frequencies are coming from, which is why subwoofers can be placed pretty much anywhere in the room without messing up the soundstage. But for mid and high frequencies, we are more sensitive to direction, so placing bookshelf speakers properly is still super important.

In short, sorry about lengly message acoustic treatment yes it is part of the plan, and once the room is set up, I am looking forward to playing around with bass traps and other tweaks. But for now, my focus is on getting the most out of my gear so I can enjoy the music experience as much as possible. There is a lot of snake oil out there including GR Research, which don’t think is 100% false advertising. The guy has a lot of knowledge about speaker design, and as much as its not perfect, he has some valid points. Anyway, what I wanted to say is this investment hopefully will not only make me happy but also inspire my family and friends to dive into this awesome hobby too. Everything in between is just more fun stuff to explore and play with.

 

[GXAlan]

That is why I have picked coaxial speakers, such as MoFi or KEF, since they have a design where the tweeter is placed in the center of the woofer. This allows for the sound to originate from a single point source, which can improve imaging and phase coherence, making the audio more focused and natural.

The speakers that measure with the best phase coherence are active speakers. Genelec gets you coaxial design plus phase coherence, Neumann and Meyer Sound have linear phase as well but without coaxial designs.

In theory, you can DSP your passive speakers to get your phase coherence.

Meyer Amie White Paper

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?attachments/amie_project_part1_b-pdf.314485/

Zero Phase In Studio Monitors

This Voice Coil’s Spotlight, written by Vance Dickason with commentary from Floyd Toole, Wolfgang Klippel, Andrew Jones, and James Croft, focuses on Zero Phase in Studio Monitors. As Dickason explains, "the implication of using FIR filters to zero out the phase of a loudspeaker to improve its...

audioxpress.com

 

[c.siedlecki]

Nice. A vandy owner here as well. And they also have a small forum.
You can update to something different, and maybe better, but maybe not better.
Or you can also move them on… but you have them and can use them to compare to other speakers. So they make a good starting point IMO.




I’ll tell you what I did after getting the Haus-Boss nod to make the system sound OK.
I suggest that we set up a HT system and she said lets just go get a sound bar and not make a “meal of it”.
We went to the place where we got the OLED TV to listen to a Klipsch sound bar, and she literally stepped back from the shrill sound, and said, OK make it into a project.

We had moved interstate, and the new room is adjacent to the dining room and opens into “sun room” leading to the front door.
So our room has to do it all… 2 channel and HT.
The two channel side is super solid.

I decided to just get a Vandersteen center channel and the two surrounds for the back L/R.
All that gear was obtained used.
The VCC5 was sent to Amir and tested, and pretty much received low marks.
In any case the one thing that center channel should do it throw a wide beam without have beam forming nulls which it does really well.
If it is just 2 people then most discount a 4.x.x system, but they generally work pretty good, compared t using the run of the mill sideways MTM center channels.
I would suggest trying it.
The Haus-Boss of course does not like the look of the @c and model 3s are generally considered lower WAF.
Initially I did hook them up as 2 channel with the TV going through the preamp, and she said, then the TV sounds great, move the speakers into the garage.
I hit the preamp’s remote to off and turned the TV speaker on.
She said how are the speakers sounding like they come out of the TV… (PFM)
It is easy to just try it and see as you already have the gear.

In any case got the used center channel.
Some kind French fellow on here posted the PEQ settings to make the frequency response flatter.
Vandy, Thiels Dunlavy all went/go-for time domain response… But with modern HT/AVRs and AVPs, they do DDSP and room correction so I am not stressed too much with frequency response.

Picked up a used Lyngdorf MP-50 AVP (so an AVR with out amps.
The run XLRs to the back and center channels and whacked some cheap AIYAMA amps for the surrounds.
The main LF and RF go through “better” amps.
And it is easier to run 20 feet of XLRs under the floor crawl space and park each amp at the surround channel locations.
Also have an RME ADi-2 Pro, but usually just stream through the Lyngdorf from the TV, or with an ipad through the TV’s Bluetooth… but the MP-50 also co do Roon.

It seems like a total overspend to have the MP-50 and then route the signal to $70 Class-D amps, but the other half likes how it sounds now.


Your problems are a lot different with two rooms.
IMO: I would focus on one room or the other.

In general you are going to get the most bang for the buck with speakers.
However if the AVR is old, then it is likely you will get more bang for the buck with some built in room correction DSP.
That can suck up a lot of the budget.
$10k can get tight… hence going big on the speakers and/or AVP and cheaping out on the amps might be an option to consider.

Personally I would be sticking the Vandy’s in one room or the other for now.
Probably the music room.
And maybe add one of their subs if you can find one in the wild.
You already have them and the PS amps, and Topping, so you are pretty much set.

Or get a Lyngdorf TDAI integrated and some legacy speaker like a Walsh Ohm, or more modern like March Audio Sonitvias or others that Erin and Amir have rated hightly..(Kefs I recall)
If you are not married to analogue then the modern amps give you the DSP.
Or get powered speakers and run them with XLRs…

Whatever you do will likely sound good to great and the option quickly expand with powered speakers.
Personally I don’t like to keep spending money so usually try to go slow enough to do it where I doubt I’ll need to “upgrade” poon… and those cycles are usually 20 years apart… and a lot of my gear is acquired used.

My goal is to give you some ideas and advice is to suggest that you do not go too fast. And try to demo things if you have that option.

I was curious if any of the AVR members are still active owners of Vandersteen speakers. My plan, as you suggested, is to keep them as a reference until I am satisfied with the new setup. However, they are quite large and don't make much sense for the room. Additionally, they are only the Model 3, not the 3A or 3A Signature. We had considered upgrading them when that was still an option, from what I remember it was around $3500. But back than I have eye on Tekton speaker which where about the same price as the upgrade, and figured to get those instead, sell Vadnees and recoup some of the cost. Thanfully I never pulled a triger, becasue I am very slow at spending my hard earned money but even though I really enjoy their sound, I believe the new setup will be superior not only with linearity but overall music experience.

Especially given the cost of the "upgrade," we would prefer to build something to modern standards. After all, these speakers are about 20 years old! Furthermore, as you pointed out, some measurements from Ammir or even Eric indicate they might not be as good as they price tag indicates.

Here's a bit of the backstory, which I find quite amusing. Originally, when I discovered the speakers, my aunt was about to throw them away or give them away with the house she was moving out of. Her late husband was a big hi-fi enthusiast. When I went over to help her with her things, I saw all the gear and asked what she was planning to do with it. She mentioned that it was too heavy, and she intended to leave it behind. Not knowing much about Vandersteen or hi-fi in general, I offered to take them out of her hands, and the rest is pretty much history. I got a bug and have built building up to this moment. Anyway, I ended up with a full surround set, a subwoofer, and a Krell surround power amplifier, and those PS 100 mono blocks which I still use. I sold everything except the front speakers and subwoofer because for the HT they were just too awkward to deal with. Especially with all the limitations.

For now, as you suggested, I will keep the Vandersteens as a reference in the music room and it will be interesting to compare them with new gear.

 

[Peluvius]

In the music room, I am planning to add some acoustic treatment, though it is not part of the budget I have designated for the gear. On the back wall (behind the speakers), I am building a wall next to the garage, which already has mineral wool between the studs. I will be adding Rockwool insulation and wood cladding. This should help manage some of the reflective frequency distortion and make the space look better (its half level basement). I also plan on building a room wide massive bookshelf behind a listening position to deal with for some of the reflections. About the early side reflection, I have just heard a very good argument, that our brain is used to it, and its very good at dealing with it, because we as a species have evolved in the spaces to deal with it. About the ceiling it’s going to be a tough cookie, especially in order to get a good result we are supposed to hand the treatment couple inches below the surface of the ceiling.

Good stuff, clearly you are all over it. I found it harder to get my wife's acceptance of the acoustic treatment (cosmetics) than for all the gear! The biggest step changes for me on my own meandering path have been the quickly diminishing returns from upgrades in electronics, the impact of a well engineered speaker, room acoustics, sub integration and correction (I use Dirac and GLM). It's a lot of course and I can understand we are well into enthusiast territory after just buying a decent set of gear. Enjoy!

The other challenge for me was to identify and be confident in what "good" really was. I use tracks that I know were well recorded and that I know well and a set of decent IEMs as well to calibrate myself .

 

[Holmz]

I was curious if any of the AVR members are still active owners of Vandersteen speakers. My plan, as you suggested, is to keep them as a reference until I am satisfied with the new setup. However, they are quite large and don't make much sense for the room. Additionally, they are only the Model 3, not the 3A or 3A Signature. We had considered upgrading them when that was still an option, from what I remember it was around $3500. But back than I have eye on Tekton speaker which where about the same price as the upgrade, and figured to get those instead, sell Vadnees and recoup some of the cost. Thanfully I never pulled a triger, becasue I am very slow at spending my hard earned money but even though I really enjoy their sound, I believe the new setup will be superior not only with linearity but overall music experience.

Especially given the cost of the "upgrade," we would prefer to build something to modern standards. After all, these speakers are about 20 years old! Furthermore, as you pointed out, some measurements from Ammir or even Eric indicate they might not be as good as they price tag indicates.

Here's a bit of the backstory, which I find quite amusing. Originally, when I discovered the speakers, my aunt was about to throw them away or give them away with the house she was moving out of. Her late husband was a big hi-fi enthusiast. When I went over to help her with her things, I saw all the gear and asked what she was planning to do with it. She mentioned that it was too heavy, and she intended to leave it behind. Not knowing much about Vandersteen or hi-fi in general, I offered to take them out of her hands, and the rest is pretty much history. I got a bug and have built building up to this moment. Anyway, I ended up with a full surround set, a subwoofer, and a Krell surround power amplifier, and those PS 100 mono blocks which I still use. I sold everything except the front speakers and subwoofer because for the HT they were just too awkward to deal with. Especially with all the limitations.

For now, as you suggested, I will keep the Vandersteens as a reference in the music room and it will be interesting to compare them with new gear.

I had a pair of 2C for 38 years, and finally got talked into selling them to a work mate.
They were one of the best selling speakers of all time.
I was chatting with him last night and he is still tickled pink.

Yeah there are some really significant trade offs in using 1st order cross overs. You get way better transcient and time domain response, but that does come at the expense of other things. However about 80% of my friends ended up with Dunlavy, Vandy, or Theil, which are/were all 1st order time and phase correct designs.
If you are using digital, you can fix some ripple in frequency response, more easily than one fis up time domain response.
But with FIR filter based DSP, like DiracLive that is a way to get better impulse response.

I would think that the Textons would be a downgrade in the long run.

Alternatively, someone else may find them more appealing and would likely take them off your hands.

But IMO yeah - keeping them in the music room for now, and using “the music room budget” to get a good AVR/AVP with room correction DSP seems a safer long term bet.

Good stuff, clearly you are all over it. I found it harder to get my wife's acceptance of the acoustic treatment (cosmetics) than for all the gear! The biggest step changes for me on my own meandering path have been the quickly diminishing returns from upgrades in electronics, the impact of a well engineered speaker, room acoustics, sub integration and correction (I use Dirac and GLM). It's a lot of course and I can understand we are well into enthusiast territory after just buying a decent set of gear. Enjoy!

The other challenge for me was to identify and be confident in what "good" really was. I use tracks that I know were well recorded and that I know well and a set of decent IEMs as well to calibrate myself .

This is where some of that DSP to tame the room can help.

The occasional ficus plant can help and be “Wife Acceptance Factor“ (WAF) acceptable.
Or the occasional picture with some rockwool hidden behind it on a bad reflection point, can sometimes be sneaked in.

But it generally treatment to be subtle enough to not anger the other half’s Feng Shui (WAF) tolerance.

Which tracks do you use for comparison?

 

[Peluvius]

This is where some of that DSP to tame the room can help.

The occasional ficus plant can help and be “Wife Acceptance Factor“ (WAF) acceptable.
Or the occasional picture with some rockwool hidden behind it on a bad reflection point, can sometimes be sneaked in.

But it generally treatment to be subtle enough to not anger the other half’s Feng Shui (WAF) tolerance.

Which tracks do you use for comparison?

The DSP is an awesome improvement. I remember using the original Yamaha and Denon EQ systems when they came out as a feature in their AVRs and being pretty unimpressed and then leaving that aspect of my systems alone for 15 years. The technology now is night and day.

I use quite a lot of different music I know very well. Lose yourself to Dance (Daft Punk); Fast Car by Tracy Chapman; Fields of Gold (Sting); Spanish Harlem (Rebecca Pidgeon); That's why I'm here (James Taylor); Something classical I enjoy (Holst Planets suite, Vivaldi, Seasons suite... ), Pink Floyd (Any of it). I think I got a few of these tracks as recommendations here a few years ago. They key is to know how it "should" sound and to be very familiar with it so you can objectively listen to how changes impact your experience.

 

[c.siedlecki]

Replace the Onkyo upstairs with a Denon so that you can get Dynamic EQ since this is a background listening system. Dirac has a big shortcoming here. Then get a Pioneer LX805 (RZ50 twin) for the downstairs setup and use Dirac there where presumably you'll usually have reasonable volume levels. Speaker choices are all excellent. But I do think the wide directivity of the Revel is a good idea for background music. I would even consider something like the KEF Q950 here as a top choice to save a few bucks, and avoid vertical off axis frequency issues since it will be used out of the sweet spot regularly. Klipsch is awesome for the HT component, though, and saves some money. Subwoofer is weak, but could be a WAF issue. If you can get away with it, consider a Klipsch RP-1400SW or RP-1200SW or something from that line if you can find the half off deal. Like this: https://www.adorama.com/kp1400sw.html?sdtid=17727555&emailprice=t. Mega 20Hz numbers on that thing.

Downstairs are all great. See Pioneer suggestion to get Dirac and a great amp all in one. But forget the extra money for a speaker "upgrade kit". Now, if you really want to blow your mind, burn the budget to the ground and get a pair of Polk L800s. Refurbs and you won't burn it that bad. Now that's a speaker if you're a soundstage and imaging nut. They are magic but they are HUGE. See if you can sell them upstairs as a "conversation piece". But you've got good speaker taste already on the bookshelfs. Can't go wrong on anything you've mentioned.

FYI I got a greet light from the wife about RP-1400SW, she just does not know how big it is

 

[ryanmh1]

FYI I got a greet light from the wife about RP-1400SW, she just does not know how big it is

<evil laugh> . Measurements of the RP-1600SW were great, so this should be very similar. Great 20Hz numbers, and even 16Hz. Once she experiences it, you'll be forgiven. I stuck a full on 7.2.4 Atmos setup in the living room. Lots of clever wire hiding and Polk/Monoprice on wall monitors. You just add stuff slooooowly. First, you might try some upfiring Atmos, then some wireless surrounds....