Looking to upgrade near-field studio monitors

[audafreak]

KH120 DSP = KH120+KH750 DSP
That is why there will be probably no KH120 DSP.

 

[thewas]

Am sure the successors of the ageing KH120, KH310 and KH420 will be all DSP based and MA-1 compatible.

 

[audafreak]

There is need also for pure analog monitors, for instance when you have external DSP. So we will see. I think it will take long time.
Current set of monitors makes sense for me. AD-DSP-DA-AD-DSP-DA conversion is a bit complicated comparing AD-DSP-DA or even DSP-DA when using KH750 DSP with analog monitors.
I think next model will be bigger SW like KH810 DSP. This makes more sense to me because of lower distortion on SW.

 

[FeddyLost]

The only problem here is that using sub that reaches down to 20Hz in my apartment is 100% going to get me evicted, no matter what time of day or at what volume I use it at

Can you apply high-pass in your DAW?
And also you can check fletcher-munson curves. 20 Hz requires significant SPL to be audible and if you work at 70-75 Db in nearfield IMO it will be drown in typical daily noise floor.
Anyway, possibilities are better than restrictions.

 

[unloren]

Can you apply high-pass in your DAW?

That's one option albeit an imperfect one. I often reference other music while mixing and if the EQ was only in the DAW I'd have to import every reference track. Not a dealbreaker, but another hoop to jump through.

A better solution is to apply an EQ in the UAD Console virtual out channel which is system wide, but I can't help but think this would alter the room correction curves in some way.

 

[unloren]

Sound of combination of KH8+KH750 is coherent to ears of mine and my friends. Sound is really very different when you add SW to KH80. Do not judge KH80 alone.

Thanks. That's what I was hoping to hear. What do you suppose is the maximum distance you can set the SW from the KH80s before you start to lose that effect?

 

[FeddyLost]

A better solution is to apply an EQ in the UAD Console virtual out channel which is system wide, but I can't help but think this would alter the room correction curves in some way.

For sure any system wide alterations of complex system may have unpredicted consequences, but it's much better than to get sub with compromised performance.
Check out subs that don't get that low (most of ported small studio subs) and you'll find a lot of interesting details like group delay, while in your case possible sealed sub distortion is not an issue.

I often reference other music while mixing and if the EQ was only in the DAW I'd have to import every reference track. Not a dealbreaker, but another hoop to jump through.

Are you sure that playing through your DAW is the same as playing through another player?
In case of real "reference" tracks any difference might have consequences.

 

[unloren]

Are you sure that playing through your DAW is the same as playing through another player?
In case of real "reference" tracks any difference might have consequences.

True, but I'm worried less about fidelity than running the reference track through all of the processing on the master bus. When the reference track is in the DAW I have to disable master bus compression, tape emulation, etc.whenever I solo it. Still, there are workarounds. I'm sure people more knowledgeable than myself have reference buses set up which make it more efficient. Maybe I'll look into that.

 

[Deleted member 12642]

I have to say I'm finding a lot in common with OP's assessment of some speakers we've both heard but couldn't put my finger on it, kh80's definitely sounded papery and like everything was the same volume, I have the 8030 but c model and the tweeter is certainly too bright even with the -2db switch, and the lower mids are not presented with the right energy. My current EQ settings have a shelving filter starting around 8k, a small cut at 1k, and a boosting shelf filter on the low end starting around 400hz or so.

So far my own findings are telling me to get something with a larger woofer. Will watch this thread to see where it goes.

 

[audafreak]

Thanks. That's what I was hoping to hear. What do you suppose is the maximum distance you can set the SW from the KH80s before you start to lose that effect?

It is hard to tell, but its DSP has possibility to set delay some ms for monitors comparing with SW (auto set by MA1) this should not be a big problem within a normal room distance.
When calibrating by iPad application you can enter exact distance for each monitor and SW so delay will be set accordingly by iPad.

 

[unloren]

Has anyone used the Neumann Control software on macOS? There has been a lot grumbling about it being iPad only, but not much news about the release of the macOS version.

 

[audafreak]

Neuman.Control is manual alignment application only for iPad and nothing else.
For Mac or Windows you have to use automatic alignment MA1.

 

[unloren]

I don't have the hardware to test it with, but how is this different from the iPad app?

 

[onyx]

View attachment 145748


I don't have the hardware to test it with, but how is this different from the iPad app?[/QUOTE
I have KH80 and Ipad. The screen capture is exactly the same as mine running on Ipad.

Are you in the US? How can you get the Geithain RL906?

“The KH80 plus KH750 would be about $3,250 total over here”. In the US, the KH80 is around $1000 a pair and KH750 is $1650.

 

[unloren]

I’m in Japan, so there are a few makers that are available here that aren’t in the States, but also vice versa.

Unfortunately the pair of discounted RL906 I was after sold out, so it’s either wait for more stock and a new sale or consider other options. Luckily this is audio and there are always more options.

 

[unloren]

Just an update if anyone is interested.

In the end I was able to get the RL906 for a price that was in my budget so I went for it. Really happy to have these speakers in my room!

Thanks very much to everyone on this site for the advice on alternatives. Any set of speakers is going to have advantages and disadvantages to others but the Geithains checked a lot of boxes and just felt right to me at this point, and the fact that they (or their Japan distributor) were able to send me a pair to test out for a couple weeks was immensely helpful. I also feel more confident now that they'll be responsive should the monitors need repairs later on.

 

[unloren]

Update #2

I guess there's no way around the fact that a 5" woofer just can't move enough air to really reproduce those lower frequencies. I'm having trouble mixing my kicks and sub sounds and I'm wondering which would be more effective; do I go through the somewhat difficult task of setting up a sub with my Geithain RL906 (I won't be able to afford a matching Geithain subwoofer), or buy a pair of budget monitors with 7 or 8" woofers (Adam or JBL perhaps) to switch over to while mixing to check the lows?

 

[LTig]

Update #2

I guess there's no way around the fact that a 5" woofer just can't move enough air to really reproduce those lower frequencies. I'm having trouble mixing my kicks and sub sounds and I'm wondering which would be more effective; do I go through the somewhat difficult task of setting up a sub with my Geithain RL906 (I won't be able to afford a matching Geithain subwoofer), or buy a pair of budget monitors with 7 or 8" woofers (Adam or JBL perhaps) to switch over to while mixing to check the lows?

Go for a sub. No need though to get a "matching" sub as they all need to be matched to the subs according to the room. As a low budget sub look for the JBL LSR310 or a similar sized model by KRK (AFAIK member @fmessier6 got one recently) which has a high-pass for the sats.

 

[FeddyLost]

I'm wondering which would be more effective

Regarding this, my opinion is
1) you need to investigate what is really going on in your studio (SPL, FR, distortion, etc.)
this will require some time, measuring mic and SPL-meter, but without this you will blindly guess what is wrong and can make a lot of (relatively) expensive mistakes
I prefer not to repair what is not broken.
2) then you can solve existing problems (maybe you're sitting in modal zero or lack some frequency due to SBIR)
3) in my opinion, if you really need more LF extension, you'll need a subwoofer due to simple fact that most of 2-way monitors have flat FR at -3 Db around 45Hz (JBL 308P mk2 and Adam A8X) and your 906 have -3Db at 50 Hz.
I see no benefits in having 5 Hz of bass reflex chuffing more, when you can buy a lot more tight controlled bass like Neumann 750DSP. For more money, of course.
Even cheap Presonus Temblor T10 will give you decent extension for EDM.

 

[fmessier6]

Go for a sub. No need though to get a "matching" sub as they all need to be matched to the subs according to the room. As a low budget sub look for the JBL LSR310 or a similar sized model by KRK (AFAIK member @fmessier6 got one recently) which has a high-pass for the sats.

The KRK10 was an interesting purchase for sure.
It actually goes down to 30 Hz, has a nice auto standby function (resume takes from 3 to 5 seconds), and with a $10 footswitch I am able to bypass it.

For movies, volume on 3/10 shakes my room. Setting it on 7/10 would probably make EVERYTHING vibrate in my studio.

I never owned a sub so I'm not sure if this is normal, but I perceive a small delay between the moment I feel I should hear the bass and the actual bass output, I'd say a third of a second. Not sure if room acoustics are to blame here though.