• WANTED: Happy members who like to discuss audio and other topics related to our interest. Desire to learn and share knowledge of science required. There are many reviews of audio hardware and expert members to help answer your questions. Click here to have your audio equipment measured for free!

Looking for a microphone or audio recorder for stereo recordings at the listening position

Roland68

Major Contributor
Joined
Jan 31, 2020
Messages
2,630
Likes
2,442
Location
Cologne, Germany
I want to make recordings at the listening position.
- Only 2-channel stereo setups with floor or bookshelf speakers
- No subwoofers
- Should be recorded in stereo at the listening position, as we humans hear it
- As high resolution as possible
- Saved as a digital file directly in the device/Micro SD or via USB
I want to take the measurements in different rooms and with different speakers/systems.

I have a calibrated Omnitronic MIC MM-1C together with a Focusrite Scarlett 8i6 3rd Gen.

The following questions arise for me.
- Stereo recordings? How?
- What type of microphone would be ideal for this?
- Recommendations for a microphone?
- Are these small audio recorders with stereo or 3 microphones such as those from Olympus (LS-P5), Zoom or Tascam also suitable for something like this?
- Are there also high-quality solutions with external microphones for iPhones?

I am grateful for suggestions, tips and experiences.
 
@mitchco has done this sort of thing. Maybe he'll show which in ear mics he suggests.

Just using a crossed pair or one of the pocket recording devices will disappoint. You will get much more room sound than you hear from the same place.
 
Soundman OKM sounds nice :)

SM OKM.png
 
They are not inexpensive, but you might consider the DPA head worn pair https://www.dpamicrophones.com/microphones/headset-and-earset/4560?variant=24. They requre about 5V to run the FET in the microphone. That can be supplied from phanotom by the DPA DAD6001. It can be plugged into one of many portable field recorders. The DPA MMA-A could be your interface to a phone. The MMA-A was selected by NASA for use on Mars. It may not be in production now.

DPA technical support may be able to help you if your explain your technical requirements.
 
I work as a sound mixer for film and tv series, so i've in my arsenal good microphones and recorders.
I use primarely Schoeps microphones and Aaton recorders. Expensive gear.
Along with other less expensive recorders ( zoom F8, Fostex FR2) i've a portable Sony PCMD50 recorder that has an XY stereo configuration.
If i compare the sound provided by a Schoeps pair ( 2 CMC6+2 MK4 cardioid capsules) recorded in a Aaton recorder ( X1-X3) and the sound of the Sony, i can find clear differences in dynamics, signal to noise, frequency response, and general space perception.
BUT the Sony is a veeeery good recorder for what is costs ( 500 U$S vs 19K U$S).
So it depends how clinical you want or need to be.
Sony has the PCMD100 that's better than the 50 ( 192kHz/24bit) but more expensive. You can find them both used for 200-700$. Is a easy no complicated solution, you can keep your recording level at the same position by taping it to avoid level changes.


The DPA option of EERecordist is good one, portable, very good microphones. yo need a good preamplifier and a recorder.
 
I think Roland68 want to record stereo at listening position, so with microphones in the ears.
 
I think Roland68 want to record stereo at listening position, so with microphones in the ears.
If the recording is done in binaural, that material should be played with headphones for proper evaluation. If that evaluation path is appropriate, perfect!
Otherwise, an XY in the listening position to be played with speakers is not a bad option IMHO
 
Thank you all for all the information. I'm still reading up on the subject.

I've also looked into binaural a bit. But since the whole thing is supposed to be played back via loudspeakers, that wouldn't be ideal.

I also came across the "One Mic" recordings by Sound Liaison by chance recently.
The entire recording is made in stereo with a Josephson C700S stereo microphone, or with 2 Josephson C700A mono microphones.
Could that work here too?
 
Stay focus on input balanced, in order to avoid diaphony. It could be very usefull if sound is spatially moving or if you use one micro each guy in interview.

And take care about differential, I advice you less than 0.5 dB differential between the 2 microphones. If not it will boring to DSP.
 
Thank you all for all the information. I'm still reading up on the subject.

I've also looked into binaural a bit. But since the whole thing is supposed to be played back via loudspeakers, that wouldn't be ideal.

I also came across the "One Mic" recordings by Sound Liaison by chance recently.
The entire recording is made in stereo with a Josephson C700S stereo microphone, or with 2 Josephson C700A mono microphones.
Could that work here too?


It depends. the C700S is 3x mics in one, so you'll need to decode that to some kind of stereo pickup. Which polar patterns will you choose?


The difficulty in trying to record what we perceive is this: our hearing system (ears+brain) does a lot of processing.

An easy example: clap, once, quietly, in your room. You'll only hear the clap. Repeat, but as loud as you can, and a bunch of echo-flutters become immediately apparent.
Those echoes were still present for the first clap, but your hearing system filtered them out so you didn't notice them.
This stuff is happening automatically, all the time, and makes it really difficult to make solid judgements about how something might record just by listening to the thing in our room. The best way to judge is to listen to the microphone feed, and play with mic positioning until what the microphone hears is akin to what you're hearing. Good monitoring is essential.

Next, let's take a look at some common mic pickup patterns:

Fig-8: totally deaf to the sides, equal level front and rear, but rear is polarity-inverted
Cardioid: totally deaf to the rear
Omni: hears all directions equally.

None of the above are even close to how our ears capture sound. I think a pair of carefully-positioned wide cardioids (ie, to mimic how we tend to focus more on sound in front of us) would be a good start.


I'm a live sound engineer, so move in a different circles to foliver, but we both like to use Schoeps mics.


Chris
 
This video is recorded by Nikon Z30 and Wavetouch audio WA-103 microphones (3.5mm connector, 2 mics). Alex / Wavetouch audio

** WA-103 mics (7v DSLR battery powered) are 6ft from LR speakers.
 
Last edited:
If you want to get the recording as close as possible to what is heard in the recorded room and then reproduce it over loudspeakers, my bet would be on a pair of cardioid microphones that can be positioned way closer to each loudspeaker than the listening position. As others have said, a recording from the main listening position will pick up way more of the room's reflections than we hear from the same distance.

The best and most convincing-sounding in-room recordings of loudspeakers I've heard are the ones done by Alpha Audio. They seem to use a pair of microphones in an X-Y stereo configuration at about 1.5 meters from the speakers. I think you should send them an email asking what microphones they are using, and if they have any other tips to share with you on making such great recordings.

Many in-room recordings of loudspeakers I've heard on YouTube usually sound way too roomy, and they usually also lack the phantom center leaving a "hole in the middle". Alpha Audio has managed to avoid most of those problems in their recordings, as you can hear in the following video. I think it sounds great for what it is...

 
Hi goat76,
Thank you for the post!

Is it only me hearing some veil (glare?) sound on people's voices and recorded music through out the video? Listen/compare to the sound of my video below.
 
Last edited:
What type of microphone would be ideal for this?
Depends on what the end goal / use for the recordings is.

I want to take the measurements in different rooms and with different speakers/systems.
Should be recorded in stereo at the listening position, as we humans hear it
The idea of measurements, making recordings as people hear them, and playing all this back on loudspeakers makes it tricky.


As others have mentioned "as people hear it" implies binaural. Playing back on speakers rules out binaural. Getting a natural "you are there" sound in-room from another room is pretty hard for any mic setup.

Good suggestions for mics and stereo arrangements so far, but if you can share more about the use case it will help narrow down options.
 
Back
Top Bottom