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Kii THREE versus KII THREE/BXT

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Great price on the set. Someone will pick these up soon. I just added my BXTs to the Kii Three pair I had for two years and it made a huge improvement. Are these in the Pro finish?
 

Sal1950

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astcal

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I am a total amateur but the Neumann KH 80 + 750 combo seems to have better frequency response than both Kii 3 and D&D 8c, No?

from Neumann's website:
1618560375140.png


Both KH 80 and KH 750 have DSP. Along with Neumann's MA 1 calibration kit, this system can also adjust/eliminate room acoustic effects, which is one of the main selling point of Kii 3 and D&D c8, but at a total street price of only US$2650!!! This is the system I am trying to build by the way. Wondering what I missed ....
 
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thewas

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On axis linearity is only one of the parameters which decide of a loudspeaker is objectively good or not, others are directivity, distortions, max SPL etc. The KH80 + 750 combo is very good for its size and price but for example doesn't provide a cardioid bass radiation like the Kii Three and D&D 8c.
 

astcal

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@thewas, appreciate the response and points well taken.

Because of COVID I have been working from home since March 2020 in my small study room at home. Besides music, ZOOM meetings is the most often usage of the my audio system. T he speakers sit on my desk and are less than 1 meter from my ears. So 'directivity', 'max SPL', etc, are not major concern in my situation. Due to the restraint of the small size of my room, I can't place Kii 3/D&D 8c freely on stands and I believe they will overwhelm my desk with their excellent bass performance. So Neumann 80/750 combo is much more practical since the subwoofer will be on the floor.

Back to the frequency response, I kinda agree with this YouTuber although he is not the most popular one:
.
 

thewas

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I agree, that for a desktop a Kii 3 or D&D 8c are usually overkill, although on of the advantages of them (and cardioid loudspeakers generally) is placement near the front wall. Would advise though not being influenced by that youtuber as he claims a lof of nonsense, also about headphones.
 

firedog

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I am a total amateur but the Neumann KH 80 + 750 combo seems to have better frequency response than both Kii 3 and D&D 8c, No?

from Neumann's website:
View attachment 124298

Both KH 80 and KH 750 have DSP. Along with Neumann's MA 1 calibration kit, this system can also adjust/eliminate room acoustic effects, which is one of the main selling point of Kii 3 and D&D c8, but at a total street price of only US$2650!!! This is the system I am trying to build by the way. Wondering what I missed ....
Neither the Kii nor the D&D claim to eliminate room effects and they don't have built in DRC. They claim cardoid dispersion which reduces room effects in bass frequencies. They also have EQ which you can also use to further tune the in room sound.

But that isn't the same as DRC as with a room specific convolution filter.

Both systems are intended to work without a sub, and aren't really intended for the desktop (although some use them that way). So it's sort of an apples to oranges comparison.

I have Kii's and they work as advertised. But my room also has a gigantic node at 38hz and the best way to deal with it is also to run DRC to completely eliminate it after the Kii's have done a good bit of the work.
 
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I now have the Kii Three incl. BXT in my listening for more than a week.

The BXT module rounds up the sub-bass in a nearly perfect manner. It is the best bass I heard in my room and maybe everywhere. Even w/o room correction it is amazingly crisp. No booming, it blends in smoothly.

The Kii Three + BXT is one of the few loudspeakers which can give true realism to the full range of drums, kick drums to toms. The Genelec 7360 can't touch them. Electronic music is equally impressive.
If you like sub-bass, you can empty your wallet and be happy. If you can live without that pressure in the lowest end, the BXT won't change the signature of the Kii Three IMHO.

Nevertheless, I am probably going to return the Kii. :oops:
Yes, the frequency response is so fine, no coloration.
But in my room (connected by USB) I couldn't make them sing, they don't project a good enough stereo image, no stage.

Music, where it came out well:
- Kleiber w Wiener Phil. (Grammophon), Beethoven 5th: The Genelec make it a feast to listen to, the Kii is quite flat and image is smeared across.
- Tom Waits, Rain Dogs, Traubert's Blues: Mr Waits is somewhere, not in front of me; the violins well played but unlocatable. The song loses its intimacy.
- Belafonte at Carnegie. Besides the hiss of the recording is more than I would like, on other systems I hear where in the audience people were coughing or when Harry walks across the stage. Not with the Kii.

It is a great speaker, the cardoid bass really makes a difference. But listening to music is about creating emotions and "being there" is important to my listening experience.
It is one of these rare cases, where Harman might have been wrong: a single Kii sounds excellent, but the stereo pair is mediocre.
 
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"sweetsounds

"It is a great speaker, the cardoid bass really makes a difference. But listening to music is about creating emotions and "being there" is important to my listening experience.""

That is certainly interesting to me as I was just finishing the mix on a live chamber group with piano today in my studio and I had to force myself to break for dinner as the music was closer to "being at the concert" than anything that I have experienced personally in my life. I was there at the concert, front row and center, I recorded it, I used stereo pairs of microphones techniques to capture it, it has zero compressors used in the mix, it has amazing depth and imaging and matches the real room and instrument position as good or better than anything that I have ever heard.

And I'm mixing and mastering on Kii Three's.

But I have the reference point of all the above. Most people don't know what it was like "being there" at the live performance of the recording or in the studio playing and creating a recording that they are listening to.

Enjoy the music everyone and stay well.

Tom eh
 
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I'm sure this has been discussed a lot on this forum, but audiophiles aren't really prepared for relatively uncolored sound. When I first switched to my Grimm speakers I thought they sounded "clinical". I was used to German Physiks (tons of room reflection artefacts -- cool speakers though), Harbeth midrange, etc. etc. Once I listened to a wide range of music on the Grimms, particularly highly dynamic music which lives in the contrasts, I could not ever go back to sound which is homogenized by the artefacts. Now the opposite is the case, Harbeths sound lovely on Blue Note jazz but like dipping other music in chocolate soup. I'm sure the KII experience is much like my Grimm and D & D experience.
 

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