Khadas Tone 2

[LarsS]

https://www.khadas.com/so/ccNNqsCfo?cid=c485e154-c604-415f-aec1-07bd57b2b183#/main

 

[MZKM]

Weird that they are calling it a successor, when it is also a headphone amp.
As the designer also has the QXD1, which is the same $200 MSRP and is a DAC only, I find it hard to believe that it claims 118dB (QXD1 claims 117dB). Or, @Ben1987, are you not the designer for this new Khadas?

The balanced RCA is really cool (you need an amp that accepts it, or just covert to XLR).

 

[phoenixdogfan]

Weird that they are calling it a successor, when it is also a headphone amp.
As the designer also has the QXD1, which is the same $200 MSRP and is a DAC only, I find it hard to believe that it claims 118dB (QXD1 claims 117dB). Or, @Ben1987, are you not the designer for this new Khadas?

The balanced RCA is really cool (you need an amp that accepts it, or just covert to XLR).

Where do you get a cable that's "balanced RCA" on one end and Xlr on the other end?

 

[Labjr]

-118 THD+N? The AP test results should be interesting. Will balanced cables or XLR adapters be included since the connector is proprietary?

 

[Veri]

Where do you get a cable that's "balanced RCA" on one end and Xlr on the other end?

-118 THD+N? The AP test results should be interesting. Will balanced cables or XLR adapters be included since the connector is proprietary?

It looks like they will be selling balanced RCA > XLR cables at the least. Also intriguing they have patented their balanced jacks:
https://www.khadas.com/post/introducing-the-balanced-rca-jack

 

[MZKM]

-118 THD+N? The AP test results should be interesting. Will balanced cables or XLR adapters be included since the connector is proprietary?

It says it can accept regular RCA, just put it in single-ended mode.

 

[Labjr]

It looks like they will be selling balanced RCA > XLR cables at the least. Also intriguing they have patented their balanced jacks:
https://www.khadas.com/post/introducing-the-balanced-rca-jack

I don't see any point in a new type of balanced connector except to make money.

It says it can accept regular RCA, just put it in single-ended mode.

Defeats the purpose of a balanced output and maybe has worse specs.

 

[MZKM]

I don't see any point in a new type of balanced connector except to make money.



Defeats the purpose of a balanced output and maybe has worse specs.

It has a 3rd pin; the single-ended mode will uses the regular 2 pins.

They are trying to make money, but they explain the advantages (regular RCA size, and doesn’t have the crosstalk issues with 3.5Pro). Not sure if it performs the same as XLR, but if it does than that is pretty awesome depending on how much it costs to license, as then companies only need to incorporate a single jack type.

 

[Labjr]

It has a 3rd pin; the single-ended mode will uses the regular 2 pins.

They are trying to make money, but they explain the advantages (regular RCA size, and doesn’t have the crosstalk issues with 3.5Pro). Not sure if it performs the same as XLR, but if it does than that is pretty awesome depending on how much it costs to license, as then companies only need to incorporate a single jack type.

No company will license that. They could've used mini XLR jacks.

 

[milw50717]

No company will license that. They could've used mini XLR jacks.

Sounds like they are allowing others to freely use the patent.

The “protective-patent” (CN211265767U) covers both the balanced RCA jack and plug, and will ensure that our design remains free and open source for the community. We did this to prevent predatory entities from co-opting and patenting this new design to corner the market.

 

[nerone]

Does it have the optical input?

 

[Moderate Dionysianism]

Does it have the optical input?

Nope:

Source

 

[jae]

Weird that they are calling it a successor, when it is also a headphone amp.
As the designer also has the QXD1, which is the same $200 MSRP and is a DAC only, I find it hard to believe that it claims 118dB (QXD1 claims 117dB). Or, @Ben1987, are you not the designer for this new Khadas?

The balanced RCA is really cool (you need an amp that accepts it, or just covert to XLR).

I believe the guy that does Soncoz now left them. So it is perhaps another designer

 

[Moderate Dionysianism]

mistake or did they just spill the beans big time on the launch announcement page?

 

[Veri]

mistake or did they just spill the beans big time on the launch announcement page?
View attachment 95756

Spotify? That would seem pretty odd, I guess they mean Tidal or something. Can't be correct..

 

[JohnYang1997]

Looks like we have the argument all over again.
Mini XLR? Who ever used them? Any standard? No. It's not a standardized connector and no one uses it. So it has no benefits over balanced RCA in the first place.

They are making the connectors though currently expensive but it will be opensourced. What that means is no one else will take that away from them and charge you for premium. You can make your own and sell it.

It's compatible with regular RCA for its unbalanced output. Where basically nothing else is like this so this is unique.

It's short and shallow on the device side making it good for compact designs. 6.35mm TRS is small but really deep into the device so not exactly ideal. RCA wins here. But it doesn't have any benefits over 4.4mm jack for now. It's currently cheaper to buy 4.4mm jack for interconnection. Some companies have used it like ifi. But using it will save space still because you don't need extra unbalanced ports.

However this is not compatible for some designs which let the downstream design to do the summing. Sharing unbalanced output meanings two differential amplifiers which will reduce SNR performance.

So overall good connectors but would do much more 5 years ago before 4.4mm got adopted and it's not for every devices.

 

[Veri]

Looks like we have the argument all over again.
Mini XLR? Who ever used them? Any standard? No. It's not a standardized connector and no one uses it. So it has no benefits over balanced RCA in the first place.

They are making the connectors though currently expensive but it will be opensourced. What that means is no one else will take that away from them and charge you for premium. You can make your own and sell it.

It's compatible with regular RCA for its unbalanced output. Where basically nothing else is like this so this is unique.

I did think the backwards compatibility is kinda sweet. I'm surprised not more people in this thread are positively intrigued
But yes you make good points about 4.4mm in the current market. I like 4.4mm a lot

 

[Labjr]

I would also be concerned with mechanical integrity/reliability of the connector. How well it will hold up over time. Other connectors have been around and proven to work well. I don't personally care how large the PCB has to be. Whatever it takes for a product to work without issues.

 

[AnalogSteph]

What a nifty idea. It's not something that I would have though of personally, I must admit. For DAC output jacks in particular, this design makes a lot of sense. I mean, yes it's yet another connector design, and yes 4.4 mm has the edge in terms of compactness, but being backwards-compatible to RCA and royalty-free + open-source may be enough to push this one. I don't see why it wouldn't work well in the consumer space, where things aren't being plugged and unplugged all the time.

 

[Tatteredmidnight]

Not sure I like this balanced RCA idea. I can see a number of cons right off the bat:

• Cable is visually nearly identical to unbalanced RCA, but unbalanced RCA is not forward compatible with this jack, this could lead to a lot of user error and confusion.
• Jack is visually nearly identical to unbalanced RCA, again begging for user error and confusion.
• RCA interconnects are comparatively fragile vs XLR (extremely robust).
• Unnecessary proliferation of standards https://xkcd.com/927/
• Lack of compatible gear leads to dongle life (do we really need more of this?).
• One physical port with 2 electrical standards, never a great idea, just look at all the NEMA plugs.

Hopefully my pessimism is unwarranted.