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KH310 sound very tinny, very little bass or low mid. Is it my room?

1niltothe

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Hi,

This is kind of a follow up thread to a recent one about replacements for Focal Solo Be6 with 3 ways.

Earlier today, swapped out the Focal Be6 for a pair of Neumann KH310. The difference in sound is so extreme that I am wondering if something is wrong with (a) the hardware in the room or (b) the room.

Reference tracks that I know very well, sound as if there is an EQ boosting the high end and filtering the low / mids. My room is pretty well treated, and there was nothing like this with the Focals (maybe a bit of brightness as mentioned in the other thread). It sounds like the high end has been turned up and the rest of the frequencies turned down.

I broke my leg a couple of days ago, and so can't get into mad adjustments of speaker position etc. My friend came round to help me put them on the stands and do some basic tests with the dB switches on the back of the monitors.

I'm just wondering what people here think is a likely culprit. Kind of bummed out and surprised, was expecting the opposite!

I'm running a Scarlett 18i20 interface -> CMC2 Monitor Controller -> jack to XLR into the KH310. Same as with the Focals.

It could be that the way I'd set up the focals was just really masking issues with my room, and the famous 'honesty' of these speakers has revealed it. To me it sounds like there's some issue with the amps or god knows what.
 

dfuller

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No, something sounds wrong. If you feed 40hz into it, do you see the woofer move?
 
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1niltothe

1niltothe

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Good question, thanks. I'll try this out a little later on when my partner is home + I'm not teetering around on crutches alone at home.

To focus in on specific frequencies and see what's going on, very helpful suggestion.
 
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1niltothe

1niltothe

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Indeed yes. I'll do some REW sweeps a bit later on.

Was partly wondering (hoping) if someone would say "ahh yes just switch the gizmo on the back and it'll be fine" or "it's because of the CMC".

Seems like it's going to be something requiring investigation.

I'll post whatever I find a bit later on.
 
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1niltothe

1niltothe

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I got back in the studio. Damn it's not a safe environment to be on crutches!

Got REW going and yes, it's a relief to see I'm not just being a bell end - this is what LP measures:
Neumann KH310 1st day argh.jpg


Both L and R speakers give the same frequency response. This is them combined.

Although the shape might look like a really bad room mode, the null in this case is literal silence, noise floor in here currently is around 40. Weird that there is some activity at the very bottom. A faint crackling noise as it crosses the threshold.

@HooStat, re: the switches on the back of the monitors. Currently at 0. Tried to boost / diminsh the levels earlier and nothing.

There's a chance that it's something unrelated to the monitors. I will try to plug in the focals and see. Will probably be tomorrow.

Any thoughts welcome.
 

LightninBoy

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Goodness, that's not right. I'd point a mic a couple inches away from the woofer and do a sweep.

Would say its a bad speaker, but unlikely that *both* would be bad in the same way.

Tough couple days for you - breaking a leg and a major purchase not living up to expectations. Hope your luck changes!
 

voodooless

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There is definitely something going on here. Can you do a loop back measurement? So from CMC2 Monitor Controller back to the interface? Let’s first make sure the input to the KH’s is correct.

I’d say: break a leg… but you already did :facepalm: good recovery!
 

nahuel

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I once had a problem with a bad wiring inside a monitor controller. Try not using it. Although first check point should be the polarity of your cables/focusrite/kh310s.
 

tonycollinet

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I once had a problem with a bad wiring inside a monitor controller. Try not using it. Although first check point should be the polarity of your cables/focusrite/kh310s.
Oh good point. Inverted polarity on one speaker could do this.

EDIT - Ah but only if both speakers are playing. If this is an individual speaker measurement then no.
 

nahuel

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Oh good point. Inverted polarity on one speaker could do this.

EDIT - Ah but only if both speakers are playing. If this is an individual speaker measurement then no.
If the measurement is L+R, although they where measured one by one, shouldn't it show this problem anyway?
 

tonycollinet

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If the measurement is L+R, although they where measured one by one, shouldn't it show this problem anyway?
If one speaker is inverted, and both speakers are playing the test sweep, then one speaker can cancel out the other - especially at lower frequencies.

If only one speaker is playing the test sweep, then there is no cancellation.
 

nahuel

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If one speaker is inverted, and both speakers are playing the test sweep, then one speaker can cancel out the other - especially at lower frequencies.

If only one speaker is playing the test sweep, then there is no cancellation.
Yes, i know, but if you mathematically add both measurements, L+R, shouldn't this phase issue show anyway?
 

tonycollinet

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Yes, i know, but if you mathematically add both measurements, L+R, shouldn't this phase issue show anyway?
The combined frequency response is not mathematcially adding the waveforms from the speakers. It is averaging the individucal frequency responses.
 

nahuel

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The combined frequency response is not mathematcially adding the waveforms from the speakers. It is averaging the individucal frequency responses.
Can't check it right now. I know that every measurement has time based information such as step response or the waterfall plot. So i believe that phase information has to be there.
 

NeoZs99

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I got a dip in the bass/mid transition frequencies, but everything looked ok in my untreated room. I used the MA1 to correct as much as I could. If you're in a treated room there's something not right
 

Absolute

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Could it be that the mid is not playing? Near-field measurements of all the drivers could tell. Maybe a hard reset of the speakers could solve it.

Not familiar with your setup, but if there's any room correction going on, turn it off. Unplug every electronic device and let it rest for 30 seconds. If the problem still persist, open the speaker and check that the wiring is okay?
 
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