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Ken Fritz - Audiophile Documentary

BobbyTimmons

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Yes, obsessive repeat posting. Were you thinking third time lucky?
It seems you are writing about yourself. You've written the same post now three times in a row. Each time I try to redirect us to the real point of the discussion, you repeat the same post like a stuck record.
 

Axo1989

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It seems you are writing about yourself. You've written the same post now three times in a row. Each time I try to redirect to the real point of the discussion, you repeat the same post like a stuck record.

"You stop."

"No, you stop."

:p
 

JP

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It seems you are writing about yourself. You've written the same post now three times in a row. Each time I try to redirect us to the real point of the discussion, you repeat the same post like a stuck record.

If someone is going to take such a poorly-written, clearly one-sided opinion piece as gospel, you're probably a few ingredients short of a reasonable conversation. Pretty sure I could take the five worst moments of practically anyone's life, perform the same degree of contextomy, and make them seem like a monster. Not to say that I think Ken was or wasn't, just that I think using that article as wholistic evidence of anything is an utter embarrassment to logic.
 

Axo1989

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Dude, it doesn’t work as tit-for-tat when you have to tag yourself. It’s entertaining though! :)

But whatever; if you want to keep digging this hole, for no discernible reason, that’s certainly your prerogative. Just don’t expect the responses to get any more agreeable.

Self-tagging was amusing.

Also strangely, they've substantially reworked/expanded posts I've replied to, after the conversation. Probably other posts in the thread, but I've lost interest in that kind of dialog.
 

BobbyTimmons

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Self-tagging was amusing.

Also strangely, they've substantially reworked/expanded posts I've replied to, after the conversation. Probably other posts in the thread, but I've lost interest in that kind of dialog.
That kind of dialogue which you filled last page with, one or two line replies when I try to return to the subject at hand. It's inevitable audiophile forums attract quite a few people on the spectrum like this. My sincere apologies to the others reading this for my unwise actions in 'feeding the trolls'. Returning to the subject of the discussion Geoff Edgers has written a half-hearted apologia in the Hoffman forum. 'I'm sorry if this caused any pain to Ken's family or friends. I found his focus and drive fascinating, as well as the world he created in that house. That's why I went to his house and we put together a story that long, with audio and video. And I'd also say if you want to hear a little of what it felt like at Ken's house that day, listen to the audio version. I love that moment when we decide to listen to the music and Ken responds with obvious joy.'
 
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tmtomh

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That kind of dialogue which you filled last page with, one or two line replies when I try to return to the subject at hand. It's inevitable audiophile forums attract quite a few people on the spectrum like this. My sincere apologies to the others reading this for my unwise actions in 'feeding the trolls'. Returning to the subject of the discussion Geoff Edgers has written a half-hearted apologia in the Hoffman forum. 'I'm sorry if this caused any pain to Ken's family or friends. I found his focus and drive fascinating, as well as the world he created in that house. That's why I went to his house and we put together a story that long, with audio and video. And I'd also say if you want to hear a little of what it felt like at Ken's house that day, listen to the audio version. I love that moment when we decide to listen to the music and Ken responds with obvious joy.'

You appear to be asserting that @Axo1989 is "on the spectrum" and then immediately labeling him as one of many "trolls" - quite analogously to how you've asserted that others here lack critical reading skills (in the very moments when you are making your own shortcomings in that department quite evident).

(Nothing at all wrong with being on the spectrum of course - but it's insulting and stupid to assert that someone is on the spectrum in the offhanded power-play way you've done here.)

And now you claim that the author of the Post article has written a "half-hearted apologia" - another evidence-free claim that does not hold up to a reasonable interpretation of what he actually wrote at the Hoffman forums:


"So it feels funny to be on this thread and to have written the article and to not reply to this comment.

"First, I believe there is a big difference between the article and the comments. But there are certainly a lot of comments and some of them are what you might expect from random strangers coming to an article and allowed to share opinions with no real stake in the matter. There is a lot of hostility and judgement in those comments. As you know, I have control over the article. I don't have control over the comments. So I'll address the article and how it portrayed Ken.

"I wanted to portray Ken respectfully and with input from those who knew him and cared about him. And I certainly didn't show up at his house that day in 2021 thinking there were would be much to talk about with this family other than ... "Dad spent years on this stereo and he just loved listening to music." I didn't even know if I'd quote any of his family members, other than Betsy, who I knew was spending lots of time and energy helping get Ken's house in order.

"But Ken, after answering my questions about his childhood and showing me old newspaper clippings of a ship model building contest he won... dropped this story about his oldest son, Kurt, delivering the "die slowly" line and then talked about being a father in name only. That caught me rather off guard. But I do think I'd have been tone deaf to just let it slip by. It is part of the story. As for Ken... I don't think I wrote anything judging him or criticizing him. I described him and described the world in which he came from. There is something deeply romantic about the era.... of Saul Marantz and classic Swan Lake recordings and the can-do spirit that filled all of those audio magazines.

"Again, I'm sorry if this caused any pain to Ken's family or friends. I found his focus and drive fascinating, as well as the world he created in that house. That's why I went to his house and we put together a story that long, with audio and video. And I'd also say if you want to hear a little of what it felt like at Ken's house that day, listen to the audio version. I love that moment when we decide to listen to the music and Ken responds with obvious joy."



The tone of his post is certainly polite and measured, but that does not make his explanation of his process and defense of his article "half-hearted." To the contrary, it's a sign of civility and the ability to understand others' perspectives. He also notes that he had no intention of discussing family issues at all and didn't even know or imagine that would be part of the story - until Fritz volunteered the information about his son and the "I hope you die slowly" exchange - a detail you conveniently ignore.

And his final paragraph is not an "apologia" - it's an expression of empathy and sorrow if his article caused pain to "Ken's family and friends." So far we have exactly zero evidence that the article caused pain to his family. As to whether it caused pain to the person who wrote the letter to the editor, only that person can answer that question. And if it did cause him pain, that's a shame, but in and of itself it proves or demonstrates exactly nothing about any alleged problems with the article.

I personally don't care much about Fritz or the article at this point. I was definitely fascinated with the YouTube video his family made when I first saw it, and the Washington Post article definitely piqued my interest for the added perspective it brought. But I've seen the video and read the article, and that's that.

What I care a bit more about at this point is your constant baseless assertions about other people's cognitive state, alleged bad motives, and allegedly dishonest or disingenuous explanations of their words and ideas. The problem here is that you're making bad arguments using bad methods, and your only response is to double down.
 
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BobbyTimmons

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You appear to be asserting that @Axo1989 is "on the spectrum" and then immediately labeling him as one of many "trolls" - quite analogously to how you've asserted that others here lack critical reading skills (in the very moments when you are making your own shortcomings in that department quite evident).
Not 'many trolls'. There are only two of you and anyone can see by looking at the trolling comments on the last page. I think you also know.

(Nothing at all wrong with being on the spectrum of course - but it's insulting and stupid to assert that someone is on the spectrum in the offhanded power-play way you've done here.)

And now you claim that the author of the Post article has written a "half-hearted apologia" - another evidence-free claim that does not hold up to a reasonable interpretation of what he actually wrote at the Hoffman forums:

"So it feels funny to be on this thread and to have written the article and to not reply to this comment.

"First, I believe there is a big difference between the article and the comments. But there are certainly a lot of comments and some of them are what you might expect from random strangers coming to an article and allowed to share opinions with no real stake in the matter. There is a lot of hostility and judgement in those comments. As you know, I have control over the article. I don't have control over the comments. So I'll address the article and how it portrayed Ken.

"I wanted to portray Ken respectfully and with input from those who knew him and cared about him. And I certainly didn't show up at his house that day in 2021 thinking there were would be much to talk about with this family other than ... "Dad spent years on this stereo and he just loved listening to music." I didn't even know if I'd quote any of his family members, other than Betsy, who I knew was spending lots of time and energy helping get Ken's house in order.

"But Ken, after answering my questions about his childhood and showing me old newspaper clippings of a ship model building contest he won... dropped this story about his oldest son, Kurt, delivering the "die slowly" line and then talked about being a father in name only. That caught me rather off guard. But I do think I'd have been tone deaf to just let it slip by. It is part of the story. As for Ken... I don't think I wrote anything judging him or criticizing him. I described him and described the world in which he came from. There is something deeply romantic about the era.... of Saul Marantz and classic Swan Lake recordings and the can-do spirit that filled all of those audio magazines.

"Again, I'm sorry if this caused any pain to Ken's family or friends. I found his focus and drive fascinating, as well as the world he created in that house. That's why I went to his house and we put together a story that long, with audio and video. And I'd also say if you want to hear a little of what it felt like at Ken's house that day, listen to the audio version. I love that moment when we decide to listen to the music and Ken responds with obvious joy."



The tone of his post is certainly polite and measured, but that does not make his explanation of his process and defense of his article "half-hearted." To the contrary, it's a sign of civility and the ability to understand others' perspectives. He also notes that he had no intention of discussing family issues at all and didn't even know or imagine that would be part of the story - until Fritz volunteered the information about his son and the "I hope you die slowly" exchange - a detail you conveniently ignore.
The post fits the definition of an apologia. It's not an apology, it's an attempt at justification.

And his final paragraph is not an "apologia" - it's an expression of empathy and sorrow if his article caused pain to "Ken's family and friends." So far we have exactly zero evidence that the article caused pain to his family. As to whether it caused pain to the person who wrote the letter to the editor, only that person can answer that question. And if it did cause him pain, that's a shame, but in and of itself it proves or demonstrates exactly nothing about any alleged problems with the article.

The article caused pain to Ken's friends and family as they have expressed.

'This is the letter I sent to the WaPo in response to the article on Ken Fritz. It was reviewed by members of his family prior to my sending it.

My original draft was much longer. The WaPo restricts the length of any submissions. I seriously doubt it will ever see print, but I had to write it and I believe it meant something to his family.'


I personally don't care much about Fritz or the article at this point. I was definitely facsinated with the YouTube video his family made when I first saw it, and the Washington Post article definitely piqued my interested for the added perspective it brought. But I've seen the video and read the article, and that's that.
Then what's the value-added of posting in the thread about him?

What I care a bit more about at this point is your constant baseless assertions about other people's cognitive state, alleged bad motives, and allegedly dishonest or disingenuous explanations of their words and ideas. The problem here is that you're making bad arguments using bad methods, and your only response is to double down.
I didn't write any assertions about your cognitive state and bad motives. It seems simply reversing your original comment has caused your upset. If my simple reversing of your comment would upset you maybe that is the lesson here.
 
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Axo1989

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That kind of dialogue which you filled last page with, one or two line replies when I try to return to the subject at hand. It's inevitable audiophile forums attract quite a few people on the spectrum like this. My sincere apologies to the others reading this for my unwise actions in 'feeding the trolls'. ...
You appear to be asserting that @Axo1989 is "on the spectrum" and then immediately labeling him as one of many "trolls" - quite analogously to how you've asserted that others here lack critical reading skills (in the very moments when you are making your own shortcomings in that department quite evident).

(Nothing at all wrong with being on the spectrum of course - but it's insulting and stupid to assert that someone is on the spectrum in the offhanded power-play way you've done here.)

My brief posts were in response to brief comments. The latter have been reworked and expanded quite a bit following my replies. The edit timestamps are obvious.

Poor form to change posts that way without tagging subsequent reworking or additions as an edit, when someone has already responded. Also poor form to assert an unqualified psychological diagnosis about one's interlocutor. And "troll" doesn't mean "someone with a different take on something under discussion". Nothing more to say there, a circular back-and-forth about who is repeating what would have been tedious for everyone.

I personally don't care much about Fritz or the article at this point. I was definitely facsinated with the YouTube video his family made when I first saw it, and the Washington Post article definitely piqued my interested for the added perspective it brought. But I've seen the video and read the article, and that's that.

What I care a bit more about at this point is your constant baseless assertions about other people's cognitive state, alleged bad motives, and allegedly dishonest or disingenuous explanations of their words and ideas. The problem here is that you're making bad arguments using bad methods, and your only response is to double down.

Yeah, ignore time on that one for me now.
 

tmtomh

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Not 'many trolls'. There are only two of you and anyone can see by looking at the trolling comments on the last page. I think you also know.


The post fits the definition of an apologia. It's not an apology, it's an attempt at justification.



The article caused pain to Ken's friends and family as they have expressed.

'This is the letter I sent to the WaPo in response to the article on Ken Fritz. It was reviewed by members of his family prior to my sending it.

My original draft was much longer. The WaPo restricts the length of any submissions. I seriously doubt it will ever see print, but I had to write it and I believe it meant something to his family.'



Then what's the value-added of posting in the thread about him?


I didn't write any assertions about your cognitive state and bad motives. It seems simply reversing your original comment has caused your upset. If my simple reversing of your comment would upset you maybe that is the lesson here.

We’ll have to agree to disagree, since we can’t even come to an accord about what words mean. I’m content to let others read our posts and come to their own conclusions.
 

kodi41

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I am curious. What is wrong with seeking perfection? Perfection of your hobbie? IF I had the means, I would do the same thing. I am not a musician. However, the art of musical perfection is not simply from a musicians point of view, but rather that of a listener. I happen to love the sound of Krell power amps, as I do own a few, but for me the pre-amp is my "God" so to speak when analog source material is of concern. W/O a great pre amp all else is for not.

I also own a Cambridge 851C CD player and via its digital pre-amp, and through the same exact analog set up, well it is very very good. I have to say, I am almost converted.

Over all, I still think my Meridian via the Krell amps are the best I have ever heard via Revel speakers im my little 16 x 24 room. Once my Meridian 585 power amp is fixed we shall see. There is some thing to be said about digital conversion, which Meridian does very very well.

God bless Ken and his family.
 
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Chrispy

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Seeking personal perfection means what in the larger picture, tho? Just deluding oneself or ?
 

Mr. Widget

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I am curious. What is wrong with seeking perfection?
All things being equal, nothing.

I believe if a person has the time to invest and extra cash at any level, exploring this hobby to its fullest at whatever level they can participate can be quite rewarding. That said, it has been pointed out that Ken seems to have put his quest for audio nirvana above his family and I think we can all agree that is not a good thing. Then again, none of us really know all the facts and we are making conclusions based on several written stories about his life and quest. I hope that his obsession with the hobby didn't come between Ken and his family.

Additionally, if you spend much time on ASR, you will realize that many of the design choices and goals that Ken followed are not supported by our current understanding of perfecting audio reproduction in the home. Some here will hold that against him... and then there are others who get upset when someone spends more money that they deem necessary.

Personally, I say more power to him and I was very sorry to hear how Ken's journey ended.
 

Audiofire

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Personally, I say more power to him and I was very sorry to hear how Ken's journey ended.
Unlimited power.jpg
 

egellings

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The problem with seeking perfection is that it's a never-ending quest. About the time you think you achieved it, some newer, better um, more perfect-I know, it's already the superlative-comes along; can't get more perfect; good, better, perfect; done! Seeking perfection is a waste of time, once you have good enough, then spend that perfect-seeking effort on something more productive. Why order a more-perfect-for-pounding drop forge when all you need is a tack hammer to get that tack driven home?
 
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ahofer

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What is wrong with seeking perfection?
Nothing. It’s odd, or literally remarkable, when you don’t avail yourself of contemporary scientific knowledge while doing it.
 
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