KEF versus Revel. Save me money ASR

[amper42]

I would go with the Revels, but the price you show is almost twice as high as I paid. In a room that size, I would recommend the F328Be Fronts as the 4" higher tweeter is really nice for big rooms. If you are not in a hurry and can wait for the next sale you should be able to get this order discounted to the $23,000 to $25,000 range. Any dealer would love to close this order. Make them bid for it.

My Revel Ideal
Revel F328Be - Fronts - $11,500
Revel C426Be - Center - $2,000
Revel F226Be - Surrounds - $4,400
Revel F228Be - Rear - $6,000
Total = $23,900

Happy hunting!

 

[digitalfrost]

e: Ignore room volume I calculated bullshit.

Regarding speaker sizing.

There's a table here for recommended reference SPL levels https://www.atsc.org/wp-content/upl...tablishing-and-maintaining-audio-loudness.pdf (see Table 10.2 Reference Sound Pressure Level). There's also other standards that give slightly less SPL but more or less this is in the correct ballpark https://www.masteringthemix.com/blogs/learn/the-perfect-monitoring-levels-for-your-home-studio

Looking at your room, 21' * 28' * 38 is is 22344cuft (633m³) we should achieve 85dBC SPL at the listening position.

Looking at manufacturer spec sheets regarding sensitivity:

KEF R11 90dB
KEF R7 88dB
KEF R5 87dB

F226Be 90dB
F208 88.5dB
F206 87.6dB

We can see there's not much difference. Also note that multiple speakers will increase SPL obviously, you can assume +3dB for a stereo pair, with diminishing returns when adding more speakers.

In any case, taking listenting distance into account you could sit 20 feet (6m) away from any of these speakers and still reach 85dB with only 10W of amplifier power.

Unless you need insane volume I see no reason to spend the big bucks. Obviously then comes the question of crest factor and how much volume above the average you need.

Regardless of any standards or recommendations - do you know how loud you like listen at the moment? Do you have a calibrated SPL meter? If not get one, they are cheap.

 

[Matias]

To be honest, I would not choose either.

Instead:
3 pairs of Ascend ELX Tower (Raal) 5300 per pair
Ascend Sierra Horizontal v2 (Raal) 1750
Total 17650

ELX TOWER PAIR

Introducing our new ELX Tower! In development for over a decade, our ELX Towers represent the current State-Of-The-Art of loudspeaker design. Every performance category has been fully optimized – from shockingly deep bass extension and punch, to incredible spaciousness and ideal tonal balance...

ascendacoustics.com

SIERRA HORIZON V2

Our Renowned Center Speaker! Combining the most advanced R&D lab equipment with sophisticated computer modeling, we have perfected a highly advanced crossover technology that we have been working on for over a decade. This new NFS optimized crossover better preserves dynamics and provides...

ascendacoustics.com

And myself I would not use towers for surrounds and rears, but bookshelf speakers instead.

 

[gnarly]

Looking at your room, 21' * 28' * 38 is is 22344cuft (633m³) we should achieve 85dBC SPL at the listening position.

Whichever number is used for ceiling height seems a bit high, huh?
I believe all dimensions given were wall lengths, with no mention of ceiling height.
My guess is the room has about 1/3 that 633m3 volume......

 

[Timmy]

My guess is the room has about 1/3 the volume......

Even less, I’d guess.

Nevertheless, a volume of 633m³ could only be true with a ceiling height of around 37' (11 m) or so.

 

[¯\_(ツ)_/¯]

Regarding speaker sizing.

There's a table here for recommended reference SPL levels https://www.atsc.org/wp-content/upl...tablishing-and-maintaining-audio-loudness.pdf (see Table 10.2 Reference Sound Pressure Level). There's also other standards that give slightly less SPL but more or less this is in the correct ballpark https://www.masteringthemix.com/blogs/learn/the-perfect-monitoring-levels-for-your-home-studio

Looking at your room, 21' * 28' * 38 is is 22344cuft (633m³) we should achieve 85dBC SPL at the listening position.

Looking at manufacturer spec sheets regarding sensitivity:

KEF R11 90dB
KEF R7 88dB
KEF R5 87dB

F226Be 90dB
F208 88.5dB
F206 87.6dB

We can see there's not much difference. Also note that multiple speakers will increase SPL obviously, you can assume +3dB for a stereo pair, with diminishing returns when adding more speakers.

In any case, taking listenting distance into account you could sit 20 feet (6m) away from any of these speakers and still reach 85dB with only 10W of amplifier power.

Unless you need insane volume I see no reason to spend the big bucks. Obviously then comes the question of crest factor and how much volume above the average you need.

Regardless of any standards or recommendations - do you know how loud you like listen at the moment? Do you have a calibrated SPL meter? If not get one, they are cheap.

Thank you that is really good information. I tend to listen louder with movies and Netflix etc. With music I find if I go that loud I loose some of the dynamics/detail. I think with your information I will be ok with either. As amper42 said maybe bid out both the KEF and Revel. As to room size it’s a 9 foot ceiling but the walls are all different lengths. Back wall is angled about 40 degrees.

 

[¯\_(ツ)_/¯]

Even less, I’d guess.

Nevertheless, a volume of 633m³ could only be true with a ceiling height of around 37' (11 m) or so.

You are correct all 4 walls are different lengths

 

[Timmy]

You are correct all 4 walls are different lengths

The stated foot values seem to come from something like this:

 

[amper42]

To be honest, I would not choose either.

Instead:
3 pairs of Ascend ELX Tower (Raal) 5300 per pair
Ascend Sierra Horizontal v2 (Raal) 1750
Total 17650

ELX TOWER PAIR

Introducing our new ELX Tower! In development for over a decade, our ELX Towers represent the current State-Of-The-Art of loudspeaker design. Every performance category has been fully optimized – from shockingly deep bass extension and punch, to incredible spaciousness and ideal tonal balance...

ascendacoustics.com

SIERRA HORIZON V2

Our Renowned Center Speaker! Combining the most advanced R&D lab equipment with sophisticated computer modeling, we have perfected a highly advanced crossover technology that we have been working on for over a decade. This new NFS optimized crossover better preserves dynamics and provides...

ascendacoustics.com

And myself I would not use towers for surrounds and rears, but bookshelf speakers instead.

I replaced my Ascend Sierra Towers with RAAL Tweeters with the Revel F228Be. What a HUGE difference. Can't imagine ever wanting to go back. I need to sell my Sierra Towers so if any one wants them send me private mail.

 

[Matias]

I replaced my Ascend Sierra Towers with RAAL Tweeters with the Revel F228Be. What a HUGE difference. Can't imagine ever wanting to go back. I need to sell my Sierra Towers so if any one wants them send me private mail.

Is it the current NFS optimized v2 version? If so, what were the main differences (if not off topic)?

 

[caioferrari]

Interesting the vote is overwhelmingly Revel Realistic but more discussion on the KEFs. I think this just means more people have KEFS ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Revel speakers are not much know. If you pay attention on internet, KEF is doing and aggressive marketing sending its speakers to YouTubers or even Amir for reviewing. For its measurements, seems to be great speakers though I not liking its design. On the other side, Revel is Harman's premium speakers, have to spend time selling probably more profitable stuff like JBL Bluetooth earphone or portable speakers.
Just to prove my point, look for release dates for Revel products and compare them with KEF, Klipsch, Polk etc. But, from my perspective, my Performa bookshelf are my definitive speaker.

 

[Oddball]

IMO the room is too large unless there is a point to it like multiple rows of seats, and even then better to re-think the whole concept. Also, the OP did not state his SPL expectations at MLP. We also don't know the size of the screen. If below 120", I usually urge people to consider flat panel options (really 115" TCL Max). Difficult to imagine that anything in this price range could come close to its performance, but yeah the size is limited. Using smaller screen and getting closer to it achieves a lot of the immersion factor and is also friendly to speaker choice as all of a sudden you are 2.5m or so away from the MLP.

Filling that room with SPL of 105dB for peaks per Dolby specs at 0dB reference volume and acceptable distortion is not really going to happen at 6m listening distance without some heavy duty professional speakers. So neither KEF or Revels would really do. On the sub side, that room can easily swallow 10 $2K subs unless they are near field, in which case perhaps just 8 or so could do.

Thinking about such large project requires also thinking about what is the ultimate goal and all components including subs and processor. Smaller room would be much easier to manage, plus you get extra storage if you divide it. Storage space is very valuable as well. You will have so many boxes to store after your are done with the project.

 

[terryforsythe]

A significant question is whether the OP will benefit from using a concentric driver.

If the OP only is concerned about timbre while in the listening position, and the listening ear level is at or close to the tweeter height, then the Revel will perform great.

If the OP wants more consistent timbre over a broader vertical range, then the KEF probably is the better choice.

 

[¯\_(ツ)_/¯]

The stated foot values seem to come from something like this:

View attachment 399309

That is exactly the shape. Front wall has right angles back wall angled.

 

[digitalfrost]

The stated foot values seem to come from something like this:

View attachment 399309

Yeah I somehow calculated bullshit I think actual room volume will be smaller than what I calculated

 

[quattro98]

If your room allows, you can consider in-wall and in-ceiling speakers as well for surrounds/heights. Both KEF and Revel have good options there in a market where CI speakers often come up short on performance.

 

[¯\_(ツ)_/¯]

IMO the room is too large unless there is a point to it like multiple rows of seats, and even then better to re-think the whole concept. Also, the OP did not state his SPL expectations at MLP. We also don't know the size of the screen. If below 120", I usually urge people to consider flat panel options (really 115" TCL Max). Difficult to imagine that anything in this price range could come close to its performance, but yeah the size is limited. Using smaller screen and getting closer to it achieves a lot of the immersion factor and is also friendly to speaker choice as all of a sudden you are 2.5m or so away from the MLP.

Filling that room with SPL of 105dB for peaks per Dolby specs at 0dB reference volume and acceptable distortion is not really going to happen at 6m listening distance without some heavy duty professional speakers. So neither KEF or Revels would really do. On the sub side, that room can easily swallow 10 $2K subs unless they are near field, in which case perhaps just 8 or so could do.

Thinking about such large project requires also thinking about what is the ultimate goal and all components including subs and processor. Smaller room would be much easier to manage, plus you get extra storage if you divide it. Storage space is very valuable as well. You will have so many boxes to store after your are done with the project.

For clarification

There will be two rows of seating. Probably 130” screen.

Oddball I’m surprised none those speakers would get to the recommended volume with appropriate amps. Though I suspect your technical knowledge outstrips my own. That’s why I read ASR. Right now I’m just looking for help with speakers.

Although it’s a good idea last thing I really need in my life is more storage. We had a previous home with tons of storage. Once word got out family(of course) and friends it was “could you just hold onto this for me for a little bit”.

As to terryforsythe’s question I’m mainly concerned about timbre in the listening position(s). I’m not as concerned about timbre when standing or walking around.

 

[Oddball]

For clarification

There will be two rows of seating. Probably 130” screen.

Oddball I’m surprised none those speakers would get to the recommended volume with appropriate amps. Though I suspect your technical knowledge outstrips my own. That’s why I read ASR. Right now I’m just looking for help with speakers.

Although it’s a good idea last thing I really need in my life is more storage. We had a previous home with tons of storage. Once word got out family(of course) and friends it was “could you just hold onto this for me for a little bit”.

As to terryforsythe’s question I’m mainly concerned about timbre in the listening position(s). I’m not as concerned about timbre when standing or walking around.

You want to have a small club sized space, so that is how it works.

Make a room smaller and simplify your life. Unless you spend another $10k on various room treatments it’s going to ring like Christmas and even then will make EQ more difficult.

Not sure if you realized how many subs would you need for that space. I have 5 for 1/4 of your volume. And always on the verge of ordering more.

 

[¯\_(ツ)_/¯]

Lastly anyone know any Rebel dealers near Atlanta they are hard to find online.

 

[amper42]

Filling that room with SPL of 105dB for peaks per Dolby specs at 0dB reference volume and acceptable distortion is not really going to happen at 6m listening distance without some heavy duty professional speakers. So neither KEF or Revels would really do. On the sub side, that room can easily swallow 10 $2K subs unless they are near field, in which case perhaps just 8 or so could do.

The F328Be and F228Be will fill this room with no problem. If you use half of a 200W Purifi amp you will need to wear ear protection while in the room. I have a 28' x 24' room with F328Be speakers in stereo and they reach my needed sound levels with less than 10W. I wouldn't be concerned about the Revels not filling this room. That's crazy talk.