Kef R Meta Series Release

[bodhi]

I know the talk of cables always brings "disappointment" I have a classic 1.5mm copper cable the dealer told me that probably with a silver cable (Qed Chord) the sound could become slightly more open ...... ......I don't attach importance to this specifically I think it's better to change the amplifier in this way there may be a small difference but I am fine with the nad 399.........I don't want to go off topic sorry .

No point for me to comment audibility of cables and amplifiers, that horse has been in the glue factory long ago.

But what if the dealer told you that changing your cotton socks to merino wool ones, the bass would become tighter? Would you consider it? Would you have brought it up here? There is equal amount of credible evidence on both these tweaks.

 

[Daka]

Purifi 1ET400A seems overkill for the Kef R3. Also, I suspect the difference might not be audible between the Purifi 1ET400A and Hypex NC252MP.

There is quite a big difference- I have both and compared them with ls50 metas. Purifi has got higher damping factor and it just controls bass tighter resulting in very noticeably better soundstage. Nc252 I found simply too boring sounding to dive front channel.

 

[bodhi]

There is quite a big difference- I have both and compared them with ls50 metas. Purifi has got higher damping factor and it just controls bass tighter resulting in very noticeably better soundstage. Nc252 I found simply too boring sounding to dive front channel.

Alternative option would be that you have to go a lot worse than even the NC252 to get audibly worse sound.

Audible in controlled test of course, sighted you can day and night differences.

 

[Daka]

Alternative option would be that you have to go a lot worse than even the NC252 to get audibly worse sound.

Audible in controlled test of course, sighted you can day and night differences.

By all means nc252 is dead silent amp. But it’s what people don’t like about d class very sterile sound. Didn’t like it. At least not when compared to Purifi. Best amp I had so far. Now went with pa240 class g and still i miss what Purifi was giving me.

 

[Alexx]

Probably commercial strategies... (the Kef site recommends Chord cables with these speakers) I have no idea why they say it, I'm fine with mine

I spoke to the dealer he says the prices need to come down but there aren't many examples available, the build now is for the new model, the demand for the old one is very high!

The black or white ones are said to have better cabinet than the wood effect because they have 6-7 additional coats of varnish and make the cabinet less resonant.

With the ones I have the flange protruding forward, I inserted it all the way in as the forum user suggests.

Him must let me know if you can order other old models then the choice is made.
See you soon

 

[bodhi]

By all means nc252 is dead silent amp. But it’s what people don’t like about d class very sterile sound. Didn’t like it. At least not when compared to Purifi. Best amp I had so far. Now went with pa240 class g and still i miss what Purifi was giving me.

Do you think these differences could be detected in a controlled blind test by a human being?

 

[Daka]

Do you think these differences could be detected in a controlled blind test by a human being?

Amplifier’s damping factor is measurable and its role on controlling bass and therefore soundstage is well documented. It’s not a fad. Some might say class d, Purifi included, is dry with no warmth or whatever but the fact undisputed is - it has razor sharp control. So yes definitely you can me blind test and you’ll see difference between them.

Seen measurements awhile ago and its damping factor was around 1600 4ohm load between 20Hz-4kHz and 2000 above it. I believe this is similar to quite more expensive Hegels which are beloved by KEF clients.

 

[Purité Audio]

When we supplied March Audio amps I was able to compare Hypex and Purifi modules no difference in sound quality I could discern, I seem to remember the Hypex ran a little warmer though.
Keith

 

[bodhi]

Amplifier’s damping factor is measurable and its role on controlling bass and therefore soundstage is well documented. It’s not a fad. Some might say class d, Purifi included, is dry with no warmth or whatever but the fact undisputed is - it has razor sharp control. So yes definitely you can me blind test and you’ll see difference between them.

Seen measurements awhile ago and its damping factor was around 1600 4ohm load between 20Hz-4kHz and 2000 above it. I believe this is similar to quite more expensive Hegels which are beloved by KEF clients.

The damping factor of NC252 is over 300 in audible range so the worst case with R3 is probably something like 0,1-0,2dB difference between frequencies. You can hear that, with actual music?

 

[okok]

what's the big deal of these

 

[dogmamann]

Probably commercial strategies... (the Kef site recommends Chord cables with these speakers) I have no idea why they say it, I'm fine with mine

I spoke to the dealer he says the prices need to come down but there aren't many examples available, the build now is for the new model, the demand for the old one is very high!

The black or white ones are said to have better cabinet than the wood effect because they have 6-7 additional coats of varnish and make the cabinet less resonant.

With the ones I have the flange protruding forward, I inserted it all the way in as the forum user suggests.

Him must let me know if you can order other old models then the choice is made.
See you soon

Like every company, Kef needs to satisfy both audience. Audience who believes that stardust can improve the sound and people who really belive in real work. They have “higher quality cables” and “audiofool” grade caps and resistors inside everything above R series although they don’t do anything. Just for photos and few bucks extra spent would easily win 100 customers who believes in those magic things.

Another funny thing is KEF on their demo everywhere uses HEGEL, and we all know how bad Hegel amps are from here.

The problem is their biggest money margin come from reference and blade And muon, so they cannot take any risk and cheap out parts just to piss off hi end customers. But as a customer of r series, we should be more sensible. The cables inside the r series is generic copper cables, what connects to that outside the binding would not magically improve anything.

 

[Daka]

The damping factor of NC252 is over 300 in audible range so the worst case with R3 is probably something like 0,1-0,2dB difference between frequencies. You can hear that, with actual music?

Between nc252 and Purifi - definitely.
Both amps came from Audiophonics. Ncore was dual mono, Purifi mono amps.
Nc252 was actually quieter - absolutely no hiss from ls50 metas with my ear touching tweeter, Purifi had faint hiss when did the same, but not bearable from 1m away.
Purifi control of metas was creating very much holographic soundstage, I can only imagine due to tight control of lower frequencies since damping factor is the biggest difference between them that I can grasp. But just because many can hear the difference doesn’t mean you will, after all we have people who dislike class d altogether, everyone has different taste. Best way is always to trial it in your room, regardless what people say and how it measures.

 

[Vacceo]

Like every company, Kef needs to satisfy both audience. Audience who believes that stardust can improve the sound and people who really belive in real work. They have “higher quality cables” and “audiofool” grade caps and resistors inside everything above R series although they don’t do anything. Just for photos and few bucks extra spent would easily win 100 customers who believes in those magic things.

Another funny thing is KEF on their demo everywhere uses HEGEL, and we all know how bad Hegel amps are from here.

The problem is their biggest money margin come from reference and blade And muon, so they cannot take any risk and cheap out parts just to piss off hi end customers. But as a customer of r series, we should be more sensible. The cables inside the r series is generic copper cables, what connects to that outside the binding would not magically improve anything.

I'd say that the speakes where KEF take nothing superfluos inside are the LS50 Metas. Since the price to performance is outstanding, if the internals do not improve the result, they aren't there.

Probably the same philosophy applies to the R series.

 

[Daka]

When we supplied March Audio amps I was able to compare Hypex and Purifi modules no difference in sound quality I could discern, I seem to remember the Hypex ran a little warmer though.
Keith

What Hypex modules and with what speakers if I may ask?

 

[bodhi]

But just because many can hear the difference doesn’t mean you will, after all we have people who dislike class d altogether, everyone has different taste. Best way is always to trial it in your room, regardless what people say and how it measures.

Yeah, I know I don't and I know you don't either. And you know you do, so we just have to leave it at that.

 

[ahofer]

Yeah, I know I don't and I know you don't either. And you know you do, so we just have to leave it at that.

Oh yeah? I know he knows you know he doesn’t.

 

[exm]

Good morning guys, I'll answer a little to everyone...

I agree that relying on tastes and tests that other people do in addition with electronics and environment different from mine is not absolutely reliable, I could only take a small cue, then if 20 people are of the same idea it could already be more reliable.

I have to admit it's hard to find 20 people who have R3 and R3 Meta -

I know the talk of cables always brings "disappointment" I have a classic 1.5mm copper cable the dealer told me that probably with a silver cable (Qed Chord) the sound could become slightly more open ...... ......I don't attach importance to this specifically I think it's better to change the amplifier in this way there may be a small difference but I am fine with the nad 399.........I don't want to go off topic sorry .

Going back to the R3s, I'll tell you right away that all the dealers I asked for excluded a direct test between the two models (probably lazy or they can't) for this reason, as already mentioned, if you confirm the price of 1300 euros for the R3s today, I'll get them I hold, with the rest of the money I'll take some good stands and bluos module.

I don't think a little meta material behind the R3 tweeter can bring excellent and overwhelming improvements (the classic mid-high system does not absorb about 60%) an addition of 39% I don't think is overwhelming (certainly more at a marketing level ).

It's a simple thought of mine, I have nothing to prove what I'm saying, please don't acknowledge me.....for now it's nice to talk about it among friends, but until there is objective data and direct listening tests, the the only certainty is that in Italy they told me they asked for 2200 euros!!! for R3 Meta if I consider that the R3 confirms me 1300 euros I have some doubts that the new model can be worth all this extra money ...

I'll tell you how it goes later.
Hello everybody.

Hi, few points:
- There are few comparion tests between the R Meta and non-Meta series, but what I'm hearing from the Reference upgrade, the difference is there but minimal. I would be very happy with a non-Meta R3.
- Cables, cables, cables. Always a hot topic especially on ASR. My 2 cents is to NOT listen to the dealer and get a 'QED Chord' cable or any cable from the dealer (dealers make crazy money on cables). However, good copper does matter in my opinion. Personally I would shop (eBay?) for some Canare 4s11 cables. They are very affordable, high quality and it means something that most recording studios use Canare cables.

 

[dogmamann]

Hi, few points:
- There are few comparion tests between the R Meta and non-Meta series, but what I'm hearing from the Reference upgrade, the difference is there but minimal. I would be very happy with a non-Meta R3.
- Cables, cables, cables. Always a hot topic especially on ASR. My 2 cents is to NOT listen to the dealer and get a 'QED Chord' cable or any cable from the dealer (dealers make crazy money on cables). However, good copper does matter in my opinion. Personally I would shop (eBay?) for some Canare 4s11 cables. They are very affordable, high quality and it means something that most recording studios use Canare cables.

Amazon basics should have good copper.

 

[exm]

Amazon basics should have good copper.

Amazon basics 14 gauge cable runs at $0.41/ft. You can find Canare 4s11 at $1.59/ft. If you need 15ft per speaker (so 30ft in total) the costs are:
- Amazon basics: 30*$0.41=$12.30
- Canare 4s1: 30*$1.59=$47.70
Difference: $35.40

With speakers that are $1,300 or $2,200 (Meta or not), spending an extra $35 to get cables that are studio rated is certainly worth it to me? But maybe you recommend using clothing hangers ($0/ft) also?

 

[bodhi]

With speakers that are $1,300 or $2,200 (Meta or not), spending an extra $35 to get cables that are studio rated is certainly worth it to me? But maybe you recommend using clothing hangers ($0/ft) also?

They don't make any audible difference. But if they make you feel better then that's a great price.