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Kef R Meta Series Release

ROOSKIE

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You are right here, I just checked the ls50 and ls50 Meta. They both are more or less 50 degrees. In real life R Series was always narrow to my ears, and ls50 meta wide. Never listened to the Orginal ls50s. In a typical Hi-Fi Store, everything else sounds wider than uniq. Hardly heard any hifi speaker narrow as the r series recently. But they image better than everything. You cannot get both on a speaker if m not wrong.
Yes, though it does depend on your view of 'imaging'
KEF R3 and some others do the 'pinpoint' type of imaging very well.

I generally prefer the larger life sized imaging that some other types do well. I still consider that 'good imaging', but not 'pinpoint' rather imaging with large scale and envelopment.
If done well it makes things sound much more three dimensional to me vs the pinpoint type which can be interesting but often lacks approriate scale and sense of involvement. Probabily why I felt the R3 was a great speaker but not as satisfying in terms of true ambiance, and to this listener, realism.

The seach pecific recordings traits will of course be a big factor as well & I would think room size.

Some of the waveguided speakers seem to me to give a dose of both worlds. Getting a wider dispersion above 8k than some non-waveguided designs so that the highs have a bit more envelopment and yet still keeping more of the direct sounds of the mids in a very dominate role so that the stereo effects(imaging) there are still well portrayed with definition.
 

Daka

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.

Some of the waveguided speakers seem to me to give a dose of both worlds. Getting a wider dispersion above 8k than some non-waveguided designs so that the highs have a bit more envelopment and yet still keeping more of the direct sounds of the mids in a very dominate role so that the stereo effects(imaging) there are still well portrayed with definition.
Which are top 3 for you then?
 

Zvu

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That's a very compelling little "buy me now!" video! With absolutely no useful information. Their advertising people are really quite good. Even their technical "white papers" have a "buy me! buy me!" vibe.

Ooooh... and it works so well on me :)
 

dogmamann

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After you include amplifiers and cables
Cables costs almost nothing, if you compare them with the ones inside the genelecs. Also, the cheapest genelec coaxial is 8331
Yes, though it does depend on your view of 'imaging'
KEF R3 and some others do the 'pinpoint' type of imaging very well.

I generally prefer the larger life sized imaging that some other types do well. I still consider that 'good imaging', but not 'pinpoint' rather imaging with large scale and envelopment.
If done well it makes things sound much more three dimensional to me vs the pinpoint type which can be interesting but often lacks approriate scale and sense of involvement. Probabily why I felt the R3 was a great speaker but not as satisfying in terms of true ambiance, and to this listener, realism.

The seach pecific recordings traits will of course be a big factor as well & I would think room size.

Some of the waveguided speakers seem to me to give a dose of both worlds. Getting a wider dispersion above 8k than some non-waveguided designs so that the highs have a bit more envelopment and yet still keeping more of the direct sounds of the mids in a very dominate role so that the stereo effects(imaging) there are still well portrayed with definition.
imaging : the positioning of the sound object in the virtual soundstage. Vague means it’s like a large are from an object is coming. For example a drum is there somewhere in the left. Precise : it’s exactly left to the piano, but it does not bleed into the area of piano and so on. That’s what the general idea of imaging. From your definition you are mixing soundstage with imaging.
 

ROOSKIE

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Cables costs almost nothing, if you compare them with the ones inside the genelecs. Also, the cheapest genelec coaxial is 8331

imaging : the positioning of the sound object in the virtual soundstage. Vague means it’s like a large are from an object is coming. For example a drum is there somewhere in the left. Precise : it’s exactly left to the piano, but it does not bleed into the area of piano and so on. That’s what the general idea of imaging. From your definition you are mixing soundstage with imaging.
Howdy, no I don't think I am.
I said nothing about 'vague'.
I don't find pinpoint imaging as realistic.
I find a larger image a bit more convincing. There is nothing vague about it if done right. The positions are convincing and clear. Though of course some speakers and setups are very diffuse sounding and do have vague spacial qualities.

Yes - in reality, soundstage, scale, imaging are all going to bleed into each other. They are aspects of the exactly the same thing - us as listeners translating the sound into an image & experiencing spacial quality.
It is really impossible to talk about imaging without also talking about the soundstage as they co-create each other.

In real life to me a guitar doesn't come from a smaller more pinpoint area. A guitar is quite large and a piano even larger. If possible I prefer that 'image', the image of a more lifesized instrument vs a smaller but more 'pinpount' image.

With vocals sometimes very exacting imaging makes voices seem just bit disembodied to me vs other types where I can picture the person or the singer sitting right in from of me.

For me 'imaging' is woven into the whole experience of the picture that the speaker transduces.
So, I what was trying to point out that when talking about good imaging there are different types than can be considered good and pinpoint, exacting imaging is not always the prefered version.

I mean that is why we have the term 'pinpoint imaging' as it is needed to describe that type of imaging.

In terms of accuracy to the source I have no idea what imaging quality is more accurate more often. Certainly with each album/track it will be dependent on the speakers the recording and mastering engineers used.

Another reason folks to try at least a few speakers if at all possible when making a purchase - especially if the plan involves any long term purchase.
 

anthonymoody

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KEF's nomenclature confuses
No confusion at all on my part. I was talking about exactly the speakers I named :)
-Current (non Meta) R2C is $1300, not on sale
-'regular' non-Meta Reference 2C is $3k on sale, and yes they clearly have a lot of stock given the sets they're pushing

To me those form the lower and upper bounds for pricing on the new R6C Meta. Has to be higher than $1300 and lower than $3k. As I said, I think the R2C Meta will be $1500 and the R6C Meta will be $2500.
 
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anthonymoody

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I guess we will see if your predictions are correct!
I have to admit, as I think further, if the R6C does indeed come out at $2500 while the non-Meta Reference 2C remains $3000, I'm not sure which I'd choose. Which tells me that I may be high on my guess of $2500 for the R6C. Maybe $2000 is more likely. We'll know soon enough as you say :)
 
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NwAvGuy

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It is a decent price increase but if it measures close to the Reference for that price then it is actually a steal. I felt the original R3 wasn't that close to the Reference and was priced accordingly.
The Reference 1 just has such better dynamics when you hear them side by side. The deader cabinet also changes the character of the sound. How do you measure dynamics?
Amplitude at a given frequency is of course important, but IME tends to be so room dependent unless you are sitting nearfield.
 

dogmamann

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The Reference 1 just has such better dynamics when you hear them side by side. The deader cabinet also changes the character of the sound. How do you measure dynamics?
Amplitude at a given frequency is of course important, but IME tends to be so room dependent unless you are sitting nearfield.
What do you mean by dynamics?
 

Daka

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What do you mean by dynamics?
Sorry for interfering but I would think dynamics is when driver moves and coil can overheat at some point which leads to loss of SPL- each speaker has SPL limit at which this can start happening. That’s the measurable dynamics. But then people often describe it as such even though it can be something entirely else.
 

dogmamann

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Sorry for interfering but I would think dynamics is when driver moves and coil can overheat at some point which leads to loss of SPL- each speaker has SPL limit at which this can start happening. That’s the measurable dynamics. But then people often describe it as such even though it can be something entirely else.
I am hearing this for the first time. Does speakers loose SPL with heating ? How does the coil “reduce” the loudness when heated? Shouldn’t it burn out if it’s heated and played for longer and and suddenly at one point “snap”?
 

Daka

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I am hearing this for the first time. Does speakers loose SPL with heating ? How does the coil “reduce” the loudness when heated? Shouldn’t it burn out if it’s heated and played for longer and and suddenly at one point “snap”?
Check out instantaneous compression test and long term compression test
 

Streamc

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Same price ? Don’t think so.
Genelec G Four. Is cheaper than R3 + Amp + DAC. Also you catch fleas looking for FR. If you want to buy flat resonce speaker, then there are many offers on the market.
Also seems you fitting the result to the data. You read that they are bright (LOL. even haters say 'deaf') and try to fit data.
Anyway you need to wait R3 Meta measured. I would wait also.
 

dogmamann

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Genelec G Four. Is cheaper than R3 + Amp + DAC. Also you catch fleas looking for FR. If you want to buy flat resonce speaker, then there are many offers on the market.
Also seems you fitting the result to the data. You read that they are bright (LOL. even haters say 'deaf') and try to fit data.
Anyway you need to wait R3 Meta measured. I would wait also.
not coaxial. Also, I don’t know why you are recommending something to me.
 

BrokenEnglishGuy

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At this point I wish the midrange was above the woofer. Again another iteration with midrange below ear level :( guess r3 + subs is the way to go.
To be honest i also find the UNIQ a little too short... i have my head above the top woofer from my R7s, but if i let my head a little down it don't seems like it change too much, so i don't know... it must be only visually?

But it hurts visually.

If i'm remember correctly, i had the r300 but when i listened the R7 the soundstage sounds like coming from below? i don't know, it's sounds very point source too..
 

Vacceo

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I wish KEF brought back the rounded shapes of the IQ and XQ series of decades past.

To be fair, once the R meta releases, I will love to see the data and tests. If at some point I renew my old IQ's, it will be the R series or Petlisten R's, I can't wait for data to compare.
 

HarmonicTHD

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To be honest i also find the UNIQ a little too short... i have my head above the top woofer from my R7s, but if i let my head a little down it don't seems like it change too much, so i don't know... it must be only visually?

But it hurts visually.

If i'm remember correctly, i had the r300 but when i listened the R7 the soundstage sounds like coming from below? i don't know, it's sounds very point source too..
Maybe tilt them back a bit and have something absorbent on the floor. The reflections coming off the floor will be anyhow larger than the ceiling and possibly shifting the image down further (but I never tried it to be honest, nor do I have hard data, just thinking out loud).
 
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