KEF LS60w - The Ugly Side of the Active Speaker Market

[Danaxus]

A few months ago (almost a year ago now), one of my beautiful shiny KEF LS60W speakers became victim to category T (for toddler), natural disaster (thread here).
I figured it wasn't a huge disaster - I'd ship the speakers off to a local KEF partner, pray they don't markup the repair parts too much, pay for the repairs and get them back in a week or two.

Things did not go well...

As you may have surmised from the date of the linked thread, the repairs took some time, 7 whole months to be precise. Here's what happened:

• I contacted KEF, and they pointed me to an authorised repair shop.
• I paid the deposit and shipped off the speakers
• I was informed KEF had a shortage of parts and there were delays, and I'd have to wait until January to get them back.
• January arrives, 3 months after starting the process - no parts
• 2 months later (March), the parts finally arrive. The replacement parts were damaged however, so had to be sent back
• 1 month later (April now), the 2nd replacement parts arrive - also damaged
• 1 month later (May), the 3rd batch of replacement parts arrive. The shop patches up the speakers and I finally get the back on 25/5/24

I decided to post this here as a cautionary tale to anyone considering going down the Active Speaker route. People tout the advantages of active speakers and indeed there are many (dsp, perfectly matched amps and speakers, far less box/cable clutter, arguably more bang for your buck, etc), and I was convinced to go down that route. After my experience with KEF's aftermarket however, I have since come to regret my decision. Don't get me wrong, these are fantastic speakers and they sound amazing. Even the packaging is amazing (getting each 32kg speaker in and out of the shipping boxes is a breeze), but it's clear KEF has poured all their resources into engineering, and not into their aftermarket support. This is manageable if you have a system built around passive speakers, with discrete parts, but a disaster for actives. Let me explain:

If I had passives, I could swap out my damaged speakers for a cheaper pair, or even buy a pair second-hand and resell them once my mains were repaired and returned. 7 months sucks, but at least my system works. Same goes if the amp or dac breaks - my system isn't crippled. Actives however, have multiple points of failure (the woofers, tweeter, electronics), all of which completely break your entire system. If a single cable comes loose inside one of your active speakers, your entire system is unusable until it's repaired.

It is therefore imperative, that any company selling actives needs to have a robust aftermarket strategy, with quick repair times and an extensive global network of partners. Unfortunately, this is where KEF falls short. after months of waiting, I asked them:
- Can I rent a pair of speakers to use until the repairs are complete? No.
- Can you keep these speakers and sell them as refurbished, whilst shipping me a new/2nd-hand/refurbished pair? I'll pay the difference. No.


Bottom line: don't buy actives unless you KNOW the company selling them has their aftermarket sorted out. KEF isn't ready yet - hopefully this is something they are working on. At the very least, have some sort of insurance program. Fancy speakers cost as much as a car does, and at least you get a replacement car to drive whilst yours is in the shop. If we're going to be asked to wait for months for basic repairs, at the very least we need something similar.

 

[MCH]

Thanks for sharing. May I ask how much was the bill?

 

[Danaxus]

Thanks for sharing. May I ask how much was the bill?

They replaced both dual woofers on the slave speaker. Total damage: €900

 

[SSS]

Huh, what a pity. Thank you for the report. What I heard in relation to so called expensive hi-end products is that repars in the authorized shop or manufacturer needs at least several weeks. This was what a hifi shop told me. Problem with electronics is that there are so specialized components that a in-house repair simply is not feasible. This can be only done at vintage gear and/or electron tube based products.

 

[FrantzM]

Hi

Thanks for sharing. I prefer, even love , active speakers. The better active speakers performance to price ratio is so much higher as compared to their passive brethren. But ... where I live, there is no distributor/seller or factory repair shop for most any brands we (I included) discuss and cherish here. Everything I have if it were to go bad, has to be shipped to the US for repair and back ... I recently had that experience with one JBL LSR 305, I had to buy another pair, these being inexpensive but, what if it were a Genelec 8361???

My next upgrade will be passive speakers.

Peace.

 

[Purité Audio]

Passive speakers also have woofers.
Keep toddlers away from expensive speakers would appear to be the lesson.
Keith

 

[Grotti]

They replaced both dual woofers on the slave speaker. Total damage: €900

7 months to replace the woofers??? That is not excusable. But that would be a problem with passive speakers too. I have some experience with KEF as an employee of a Hifi store until 2015. If I remember correctly, I never saw a KEF speaker with defective bass driver but quite a few with broken tweeters. I swapped the coax driver for a new one and that was it. Lead time for the new drivers was about a few weeks to my remembrance. Due to the vanishing low failure rate of the bass drivers it could be, that they haven't produced enough of them to fit the demand. But 7 months and twice delivered defective? No way!

 

[SSS]

Passive speakers also have woofers.
Keep toddlers away from expensive speakers would appear to be the lesson.
Keith

Former decades ago many speakers had a protective grill or at least cloth in front of the speaker chassis. Of course omitting these today the acoustic performance might be better. Regarding toddlers, long ago I allowed my 4 and 6 year old sons to use my Thorens TD124 and SME tonearm for playing their LPs. They were so careful that nothing bad happened.

 

[Verig]

Two times damaged. Damaged in transport or otherwise DOA parts? This sucks, surely, but if it was transport damage KEF can only do so much.

But point taken, integration always comes at a price. If my NAD M10 decides to give up the smoke there goes amp, streamer and room correction. A bit better situation than LS60 but still would require non-trivial amount of cash to come up with replacement for seven months.
Also, toddlers (and in my case, cats too) come at a price.

 

[Talisman]

Although many are fans of active speakers, this is one of the reasons that keep me very away, just one small flaw and the entire system is out of order. This happens with very recent speakers that are still on sale, think if it had happened in 10 years, what chances would you have had of being able to repair the ls60s?
A good pair of passive speakers can last a lifetime and are usually easy to fix even yourself.
Active is not my cup of tea

 

[SSS]

Although many are fans of active speakers, this is one of the reasons that keep me very away, just one small flaw and the entire system is out of order. This happens with very recent speakers that are still on sale, think if it had happened in 10 years, what chances would you have had of being able to repair the ls60s?
A good pair of passive speakers can last a lifetime and are usually easy to fix even yourself.
Active is not my cup of tea

My opinion too. Although I must admit that active speakers can sound better since the active or DSP crossovers can be adjusted powerless in a better way to match the speaker chassis and cabinet. This the reason why recording studios and radio stations use active speakers since decades. Further reason there is that no power amp and cables are needed. And the the active speakers can be driven by the line level studio audio signal.

 

[Talisman]

My opinion too. Although I must admit that active speakers can sound better since the active or DSP crossovers can be adjusted powerless in a better way to match the speaker chassis and cabinet. This the reason why recording studios and radio stations use active speakers since decades. Further reason there is that no power amp and cables are needed. And the the active speakers can be driven by the line level studio audio signal.

No objections in this regard, certainly a totally active design will allow a reproduction quality unattainable with a passive design, simply for me the difference in audio quality is not worth the risk in a home audio context

 

[SSS]

No objections in this regard, certainly a totally active design will allow a reproduction quality unattainable with a passive design, simply for me the difference in audio quality is not worth the risk in a home audio context

I have only passive speakers in use since I have enough power amplifiers.

 

[TonyJZX]

$7k speakers

i bet the repair cost wasnt funny

the problem will always be that the electronics will be an issue a decade or more down the track

sure, passive speakers also have cone failure but yeah... i do agree that in many cases actives solve a problem that doesnt really exist

sure for nearfield professional - ok

but if you blew a Fosi ZA3 or an A70 five years down the track, its just a small cost of doing business but if you blow an internal amp of this tower out of warranty? hmmm

 

[sigbergaudio]

I don't see how delay on replacing drivers on a speaker has anything to do with the fact that they happen to be active.

We will happily replace (or send for you to replace) both drivers and amplifiers on our speakers and subs, so this does not have to be difficult on an active speaker.

 

[Danaxus]

I don't see how delay on replacing drivers on a speaker has anything to do with the fact that they happen to be active.

We will happily replace (or send for you to replace) both drivers and amplifiers on our speakers and subs, so this does not have to be difficult on an active speaker.

It doesn't. The result for the consumer is what changes. If my active speakers aren't working, then I need to procure a spare pair of actives to use whilst they're being repaired. That's not easy/cheap. If my passive speakers aren't working, at least the rest of my system is still 100% operational. I could conceivably buy a pair of 2nd hand speakers, use them whilst KEF/other company is taking 7 months to do repairs, and then sell them once my primary speakers are returned, and depending on the prices of the 2nd hand market, I may not lose anything. Alternatively, I could buy a cheap pair of passives that won't sound as good, but will still work just fine.

It is certainly possible to buy 2nd hand actives and sell those again, but the market for those is a lot smaller - it would be harder to do so. As for buying new - I'd be forced to buy the speaker and all its electronic components, which would cost more. In a passive system, I replace the one component that's damaged. In an active system you replace everything.

 

[nerdstrike]

As you may have surmised from the date of the linked thread, the repairs took some time, 7 whole months to be precise.

There are similar tales circulating for car repairs of late. Global supply chains have gotten very wonky and the completely dominant just-in-time approach to stock has resulted in a great many ugly stories of this kind.

I don't think this is an acceptable timeframe for a repair on luxury (or just expensive) goods. One can only hope that the company doesn't just shrug it off as c'est la vie.

 

[sergeauckland]

As a user of active loudspeakers for almost 40 years, I have never worried more about failures with actives than I would with passives and separate amplifiers.
When an active loudspeaker fails, if the drivers, then no different to a passive loudspeaker. If the electronics, then no different to an amplifier failure in a passive system.

In both cases, the system is unusable until the fault is repaired.

Back in the day, repairing electronics was relatively simple, as components were through-hole and easy to replace. Now, I accept that electronics is more difficult to repair given the surface-mount nature of devices, and software-driven DSP chips. However, whether the amplifier is in a separate box or integrated into the loudspeaker box, the method of construction is the same, with the same issues for repair.

The benefits of active loudspeakers to me far outweigh any perceived negatives, so after 40 years I have no desire to change back to passive loudspeakers.

S.

 

[TonyJZX]

We will happily replace (or send for you to replace) both drivers and amplifiers on our speakers and subs, so this does not have to be difficult on an active speaker.

i dont think that's recommended in the EU and other places with CE type certfication

customers taking apart 240v wall powered electronics???

 

[SSS]

As a user of active loudspeakers for almost 40 years, I have never worried more about failures with actives than I would with passives and separate amplifiers.
When an active loudspeaker fails, if the drivers, then no different to a passive loudspeaker. If the electronics, then no different to an amplifier failure in a passive system.

In both cases, the system is unusable until the fault is repaired.

Back in the day, repairing electronics was relatively simple, as components were through-hole and easy to replace. Now, I accept that electronics is more difficult to repair given the surface-mount nature of devices, and software-driven DSP chips. However, whether the amplifier is in a separate box or integrated into the loudspeaker box, the method of construction is the same, with the same issues for repair.

The benefits of active loudspeakers to me far outweigh any perceived negatives, so after 40 years I have no desire to change back to passive loudspeakers.

S.

What make were the active speakers 40 years ago?