JDS Labs Element IV DAC & HP Amp with EQ Review

[JimmyBuckets]

The Element's disadvantage here is that you cannot carry it around without the AC adapter. OTOH, if I need to move my RME to another location, I don't need to bring the power brick with me or to extract it from the cable management pouch of my desk. I just take a small USB-PD adapter with 12 V output capability and a USB-C to 2.1/5.5 12 V PD marker cable.

With the extra $800 you save from buying the Element, you could order 40 extra AC adapters and just sprinkle them around the city...just in case.

 

[unpluggged]

With the extra $800 you save from buying the Element

I've already explained in this thread why I don't consider it as savings. The Element is still very limited in features compared to the ADI-2 DAC, not to mention the ADI-2 Pro. Besides, I already have the RME, so I don't choose between them. I'd consider it for use in the office, but I think the Qudelix 5K still would better suit this use case: no need for external power supply, no need for Internet connection to change EQ profiles (an important consideration for many workplaces), can use it while commuting.

Otherwise, I like the fresh approach of JDS here, the Element's form factor, design, and its performance as a DAC and an amp. It's just that I struggle to find a use case for it.

 

[pablolie]

...
Otherwise, I like the fresh approach of JDS here, the Element's form factor, design, and its performance as a DAC and an amp. It's just that I struggle to find a use case for it.

It is absolutely perfect as a desktop DAC/Amp for me. I want to reach everything manually on my desktop, no need for any remotes. Everybody's needs and preferences are different though.

 

[johny_2000]

Here are some ideas for the Element V for JDS Labs:
- Switched-mode power supply with AC input 100-240V 50/60Hz, DC output 12V. Protection class 2. IEC socket with earth pin.
- Built-in USB isolator.
- Front panel switch button for output control.
- 4.4 mm balanced headphone output
- 1/4" TRS balanced outputs on the rear

 

[ta240]

There is no excuse anymore to use clunky old boomer-grade wall wart technology when USB-C PD provides a standardized connector and tons of different existing options

So, your only 'argument' is that an AC to AC adapter is 'boomer-grade'? It seems pretty straight forward and reliable. Is that 'boomer-grade'? There isn't much to go wrong in an AC/AC adapter, unlike an AC/DC one. A bullet proof, external transformer and purpose designed rectification and smoothing inside the unit seems like a pretty good idea. My DAC from them has been running for a decade that way.
As you point out there are all sorts of USB-C PD options, including many cheap, substandard ones.

 

[pablolie]

Do you own a current version and lived with it? Here are my thoughts on the improvements you propose and some wish items...

Here are some ideas for the Element V for JDS Labs:
- Switched-mode power supply with AC input 100-240V 50/60Hz, DC output 12V. Protection class 2. IEC socket with earth pin.

I don't mind the external power supply for a desktop DAC-Amp like this.

- Built-in USB isolator.

Gadgetry. Not needed.

- Front panel switch button for output control.

The top button does fine for that purpose.

- 4.4 mm balanced headphone output
- 1/4" TRS balanced outputs on the rear

Indifferent about those, I don't miss those.

As a user over the years, my man asks are:

1. Better documentation on all the features and configuration options in the menu. Please. Many capabilities are poorly explaind/documented. I find the total lack of a menu manual where every option is explained a big oversight.

2. Give us a much better on-device menu screen , bigger! It is really hard to interact with the device with that microscopic screen. Also angle up that display some.

 

[JimmyBuckets]

I've already explained in this thread why I don't consider it as savings. The Element is still very limited in features compared to the ADI-2 DAC, not to mention the ADI-2 Pro. Besides, I already have the RME, so I don't choose between them. I'd consider it for use in the office, but I think the Qudelix 5K still would better suit this use case: no need for external power supply, no need for Internet connection to change EQ profiles (an important consideration for many workplaces), can use it while commuting.

Otherwise, I like the fresh approach of JDS here, the Element's form factor, design, and its performance as a DAC and an amp. It's just that I struggle to find a use case for it.

I definitely see the difference between RME and JDS. JDS is great consumer grade gear where your RME is definitely PRO grade. I had an ADI-2 DAC and it was fantastic. I never felt like I got full use out of it. Basically used it just as a dac/amp. I sold it and listened to the Atom stack I already had since I couldn't really hear much difference between them. I was just busting you chops about the 40 power bricks. I have a Motu M4 and I can run that off my phone. I can see how useful not being tethered to AC could be in a pro situation.

 

[CedarX]

https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/API/Web_Serial_API#browser_compatibility
Short version: it works with recent desktop versions of Chrome, Edge and Opera (and probably other chromium-based browsers) - assuming it hasn;t been disabled by corporate policy. There's a plugin for Firefox, but it won't be in the browser itself as Mozilla consider it too much of a security risk. I think that's why Apple haven't implemented it too. The discussion of the Mozilla position got a bit heated.

Not that it makes much difference… but is the webapp interface to the XMOS XU316 actually based on Web_Serial API or a combination of WebUSB and WebHID APIs?
FiiO has a very similar webapp for their PEQ-enabled portable devices, based on the two later APIs.

 

[Cogito]

So if the cheap transformer that's inside the wall wart, was inside the unit this would make it better? The only part of the power supply that isn't inside the unit is the AC transformer. It's really an easy fix with the use of an extension cord. I'm sure there are other parts that are used to make the unit that have to be sourced from China besides the AC transformer. You keep talking about the "wall wart" like its a DC power supply. I just don't want people to be confused and think JDS is using a cheap power supply. AC to DC is happening inside the unit. I don't think you can even find a Chi-fi unit that doesn't everything this does for $500 in this type of form factor. Please read the blog post.

JDS Labs Blog – Audio True to Sound

blog.jdslabs.com

AC or DC output, it's still a wall wart. As my example in the $399 Cambridge Audio MXN-10, the power supply is internal and quite compact (See below). It wouldn't take a whole lot of engineering to put something similar in the JDS unit.

It's rated at a 5V/4A output.

 

[JimmyBuckets]

AC or DC output, it's still a wall wart. As my example in the $399 Cambridge Audio MXN-10, the power supply is internal and quite compact (See below). It wouldn't take a whole lot of engineering to put something similar in the JDS unit.

It's rated at a 5V/4A output.

The MXN10 is a full rack width piece of equipment... approximately 17"x 11"x 3"....there is a little more real estate. The EL4 is 5.8x5.8 x 1.6". And that includes the thickness of the volume knob. The chassis is maybe 3/4".

 

[johny_2000]

The MXN10 is a full rack width piece of equipment... approximately 17"x 11"x 3"....there is a little more real estate. The EL4 is 5.8x5.8 x 1.6". And that includes the thickness of the volume knob. The chassis is maybe 3/4".

It can be external. Just a better type. Like 12VDC so that you can use a variety of other power sources of your choice, more efficient (less heat dissipation loss), lightweight, with a grounded IEC power cable.

For example, like this MEAN WELL GST25A12-P1J power supply for $12.

 

[Cogito]

The MXN10 is a full rack width piece of equipment... approximately 17"x 11"x 3"....there is a little more real estate. The EL4 is 5.8x5.8 x 1.6". And that includes the thickness of the volume knob. The chassis is maybe 3/4".

I think you have it confused with the AXN-10. The MXN-10's dimensions are 8.5" x 7.5" x 2". While somewhat bigger, there is considerable empty pace inside the top and front of the unit.

 

[dougq]

I've already explained in this thread why I don't consider it as savings. The Element is still very limited in features compared to the ADI-2 DAC, not to mention the ADI-2 Pro. Besides, I already have the RME, so I don't choose between them. I'd consider it for use in the office, but I think the Qudelix 5K still would better suit this use case: no need for external power supply, no need for Internet connection to change EQ profiles (an important consideration for many workplaces), can use it while commuting.

Otherwise, I like the fresh approach of JDS here, the Element's form factor, design, and its performance as a DAC and an amp. It's just that I struggle to find a use case for it.

It’s less limiting than an rme. It has a full 10 band peq and substantially more power.


The use case is simple

Power audio devices. You may feel satisfied with what you already have. That’s great. No need to be a consumer whore and buy new things just because they are new. But being able to just import a variety of auto eq profiles to test out on headphones seamlessly is awesome.

 

[Inertiaman]

Correct, the Device Settings page reads current settings from Element IV and then loads the page. You'll see a spinning progress wheel for a fraction of a second for this reason.

The default knob button behavior toggles output (Headphone or RCA Output):

Now I'm more confused.

When you say "correct" in response to the various statements preceding your reply, you're saying that PEQ parameters can be manipulated by a browser page, even if the PC running the browser is offline?

 

[unpluggged]

It’s less limiting than an rme. It has a full 10 band peq

Did you read my reply where I thoroughly listed the RME ADI-2 DAC FS features that Element IV lacks? And all you have to say is it has three more EQ bands? The only limiting factor about the RME's EQ to me is not the number of bands but the steps and ranges of adjustment. Still it's mostly adequate, and I can satisfactorily equalize any of my headphones/IEMs to desired targets.

and substantially more power

0.2 dB higher output (+22.2 dBu vs +22 dBu, so less than 1% of a difference) is "substantially more", yes. And then there is the balanced headphone output of the Pro versions, with its nearly 20 V RMS (+28 dBu) output. But why would you need such high output levels to begin with?

But being able to just import a variety of auto eq profiles to test out on headphones seamlessly is awesome

Import where specifically? It's been established already that the web app can apply only one EQ setting to the XMOS chip; you can't switch between presets on the fly. It doesn't even have separate settings for left and right channels. OTOH, the RME has memory for 20 EQ presets that are stored on the device and available instantly. Additionally, one can use the desktop remote app to load EQ presets from files and to export them to files.

 

[dougq]

Did you read my reply where I thoroughly listed the RME ADI-2 DAC FS features that Element IV lacks? And all you have to say is it has three more EQ bands? The only limiting factor about the RME's EQ to me is not the number of bands but the steps and ranges of adjustment. Still it's mostly adequate, and I can satisfactorily equalize any of my headphones/IEMs to desired targets.


0.2 dB higher output (+22.2 dBu vs +22 dBu, so less than 1% of a difference) is "substantially more", yes. And then there is the balanced headphone output of the Pro versions, with its nearly 20 V RMS (+28 dBu) output. But why would you need such high output levels to begin with?


Import where specifically? It's been established already that the web app can apply only one EQ setting to the XMOS chip; you can't switch between presets on the fly. It doesn't even have separate settings for left and right channels. OTOH, the RME has memory for 20 EQ presets that are stored on the device and available instantly. Additionally, one can use the desktop remote app to load EQ presets from files and to export them to files.

What? You can absolutely import several presets and switch on the fly. I'm doing it... right now? It saves those presets, and they are accessible to each machine. It functions exactly as switching on the RME does.

You minimize the features the RME lacks, but that has over the Element (at over double the cost). The main thing is there is give and take. Your main question about the purpose of the device makes no sense. You just want to argue to argue because you must feel insecure for some reason (you shouldn't, the rme is a great device). It's just great that you can now get a more performant all in one at half the cost of an RME now made in the USA, from a company with a stellar reputation.

 

[unpluggged]

What? You can absolutely import several presets and switch on the fly. I'm doing it... right now? It saves those presets, and they are accessible to each machine. It functions exactly as switching on the RME does.

No. Here the JDS rep clearly says that the presets are stored in your account, so you must be connected in order for this to work. So it does not work "exactly" as it does on the RME. Besides, I don't like the idea of registering an online account just to have basic control of my own device. I don't need to register and be online to control and switch between EQ presets on both my RME ADI-2 Pro and Qudelix 5K, neither do I need to be connected to load and switch between my miniDSP Flex or RME TotalMix room EQ presets or Neumann MA 1 alignments, so there should not be any reason I would have to do this with JDS Element IV.

You minimize the features the RME lacks

Which ones, specifically? It's obviously the other way around, it's you who is minimizing and dismissing RME's useful features while underscoring insignificant differences such as the 10-band EQ vs 7-band or the 1% higher output (or not, because I manage to get 10.3 V on my unit before it clips digitally). Meanwhile, correct me if I'm wrong, but there are no features that are available on the Element but not available on the RME.

you must feel insecure for some reason

Thank you for your care, but I prefer to be diagnosed by a specialist, in person, and upon my own request.

You just want to argue

I was trying to make a point that apparently was not clear enough, so I had to reiterate. It's not a matter of "insecurity". We are trying to understand this interesting product's capabilities and its positioning, so there is some place for discussion and comparison. Why not? So if you say that the Element is an equal alternative to the ADI-2 DAC and the higher price of the latter is unconditionally unjustified, I will respectfully disagree and provide the reasoning behind my opinion.

It's just great that you can now get a more performant all in one at half the cost of an RME now made in the USA, from a company with a stellar reputation.

It's great that there is finally more choice, but "more performant" is a bit of a stretch, IMHO (now I'm repeating myself).

OK, I think it's enough for now. It's the review thread, after all.

 

[adc]

This is actually a great question.

Is an internet connection (plus up and running JDS servers and a connected computer of some sort) required for configuring the PEQ?

If the answer is 'yes', I'd say please also add the option to do it on the device itself. After all it does have a display and a rotary encoder/push button so the hardware UI is there. The process will be cumbersome yes, but it will make de device truly standalone and unlock many more use cases.

+1.

I love JDS, and I own and love an Element III Mk2 and an Atom+, but no way am I interested in an amplifier which requires internet connectivity for basic functionality. That's just nutty.

 

[adc]

https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/API/Web_Serial_API#browser_compatibility
Short version: it works with recent desktop versions of Chrome, Edge and Opera (and probably other chromium-based browsers) - assuming it hasn;t been disabled by corporate policy. There's a plugin for Firefox, but it won't be in the browser itself as Mozilla consider it too much of a security risk. I think that's why Apple haven't implemented it too. The discussion of the Mozilla position got a bit heated.

With good reason. I think this whole concept, while creative, is a security nightmare. No thanks.

I understand the hardware limitations preventing embedded implementation, but please, a dedicated Windows or Mac application (I accept that Linux is too niche).

 

[Sokel]

Synapse should be inside as part of it as it should in every DAC,ground loops don't discriminate good or bad.
Interesting device though and I hope support will be there,it looks like it needs it.

Thanks Amir!