JDS Labs Element IV DAC & HP Amp with EQ Review

[adc]

When I read "I love JDS, and I own and love an Element III Mk2 and an Atom+, but no way am I interested in an amplifier which requires internet connectivity for basic functionality. That's just nutty", that sounded to me like there's an assumption the device is entirely useless unless connected to internet. That's my misunderstanding of your original comment.

Apologies for the sloppy phrasing. By "basic" I mean normal, everyday use of user functions (excepting the unavoidable stuff like firmware updates).

 

[CedarX]

I am curious about what the security issue is? Polling a remote web server is the whole point of the World Wide Web. If that's a big worry, toss away all your devices that access the Internet. Or are you worried someone out there steals your precious PEQ presets from the JDS server? I see how it may be inconvenient for several use cases, but I don't see a genuine security flaw in the concept.

I believe the security concerns are about opening a serial or USB communication: conceptually, you could spoof the serial-over-USB communication of an "innocent Element-IV DAC device", and inject malicious code onto your Web Browser...

 

[dorirod]

I doubt anyone wants to turn this thread into an expose of how software and website exploits work, or why this architecture represents a dramatic (and in my opinion, unnecessary) expansion of the attack surface of an otherwise low-risk USB device. Not everyone cares about such things; the evidence and resulting breaches are in the media nearly every day lately.

C'mon, that's just trolling. Internet connectivity is a requirement (for now anyway) in order to use one of this device's most unique features.

It seems like this could potentially be easily remedied. @jseaber is it possible to release an offline version of the page that could be downloaded and loaded in a browser without Internet connectivity? Basically to include all needed libraries and no checks for connectivity to other pages?

 

[gvl]

If you like the HW-based PEQ of Element-IV, there are several HW-based PEQ dongles that would work with an iPhone.

Issue is, I don’t want to use a dongle. My mobile device can do it all, but streaming providers refuse to add PEQ too their anpps and it cannot be done centrally in the OS, last time I checked anyway.

 

[somebodyelse]

Yes, happy to share the API! Attached is the relevant section from internal documentation (uploaded here as a .txt file, change to .md for better formatting). This information is enough for anyone to build their own app, or simply communicate through the serial port.

Would you prefer to see Core released as an opensource project?

Feel free to PM or email me with any technical questions. Just a heads-up, I have thread notifications turned off this time of year due to other obligations.

FWIW, demand for Element IV has far exceeded our expectations. We sized the first batch to last 8 weeks based on historical trends, and it's nearly sold out in less than a quarter of that time. Retailers are already backlogged into 2025.

Thanks very much. I'm always in favour of open source where possible, and releasing it now sidesteps any fear that you may not follow through on the promise of releasing code if you shut down the app server at some point. Please consider it carefully though - the recent attempt to open source WinAmp probably shows most of the ways it can go wrong.

Is there an API version in the response JSON?

 

[somebodyelse]

Apologies for the sloppy phrasing. By "basic" I mean normal, everyday use of user functions (excepting the unavoidable stuff like firmware updates).

On the bright side we now have the necessary protocol details to make something to perform these functions from your headless linux box.

 

[adc]

I believe the security concerns are about opening a serial or USB communication: conceptually, you could spoof the serial-over-USB communication of an "innocent Element-IV DAC device", and inject malicious code onto your Web Browser...

I'd be more concerned about the reverse (if I understood you correctly). Giving website code direct access to a Windows driver is serious business (as the Mozilla github thread discusses).

 

[alekksander]

multi tone performance… are we seeing here the best performance on asr yet? it's just beautiful.

 

[pablolie]

Issue is, I don’t want to use a dongle. My mobile device can do it all, but streaming providers refuse to add PEQ too their anpps and it cannot be done centrally in the OS, last time I checked anyway.

Spotify offers PEQ-ish controls (which clearly I am not using :-D):

 

[adc]

On the bright side we now have the necessary protocol details to make something to perform these functions from your headless linux box.

Yep, I like this direction.

 

[jseaber]

It seems like this could potentially be easily remedied. @jseaber is it possible to release an offline version of the page that could be downloaded and loaded in a browser without Internet connectivity? Basically to include all needed libraries and no checks for connectivity to other pages?

Running locally is possible in a development environment, but that's not ideal for everyone. Converting to a native app with local and/or device storage is possible, but non-trivial. We're listening and prioritizing requests from customers of the first batch.

Thanks very much. I'm always in favour of open source where possible, and releasing it now sidesteps any fear that you may not follow through on the promise of releasing code if you shut down the app server at some point. Please consider it carefully though - the recent attempt to open source WinAmp probably shows most of the ways it can go wrong.

Is there an API version in the response JSON?

Understood! We've weighed the decision and believe it makes most sense to consider releasing Core after major firmware efforts are complete, as Element IV firmware contains significant IP. Core is a fancy serial interface when you get down to it.

An API version number is not in the JSON response. Timmy and I discussed and decided to redirect to the firmware update page should any breaking changes occur down the road.

 

[KosherButcher]

Glad to see PEQ is making its way into more affordable offerings with great performance to complement. That said, what I really want is the ability to PEQ Qobuz/Spotify on iPhone, but there seem to be some conspiracy to keep this feature out.

Agreed. Right now it seems like the Qdelix 5k is the most convenient, and feature-rich, way to do that, especially for the price point.

 

[gvl]

Spotify offers PEQ-ish controls (which clearly I am not using :-D):

View attachment 411728

It’s called graphical EQ, and Spotify has a particularly crappy implementation, I just can’t get it to sound right.

 

[amirm]

Synapse should be inside as part of it as it should in every DAC,ground loops don't discriminate good or bad.

There are only a handful of DACs that have such. Mostly because audible ground loops are rare and you have the option of using XLR output to lower that chance even more.

 

[amirm]

Apologies for the sloppy phrasing. By "basic" I mean normal, everyday use of user functions (excepting the unavoidable stuff like firmware updates).

I am sure you know this but configuring PEQ is not an everyday thing. You figure out filters you want, and then use it from then on. Usage of the filters does not require any web interface or computer interaction. If you have to add an extension to program the PEQ, you can disable it after that setup.

I get that you may want more than one. In that case, I hope JDS adds the ability to have multiple profiles in the DAC and UI to control it there.

 

[Billy Budapest]

JDS Labs (not to be confused with JPS Labs) is an engineering-focused and value-driven company. I don’t think they’ve ever released a product that is less than “very good”—most are “excellent.” Gotta give a shout out to them as a St. Louis area based manufacturer. A little hometown pride! But they are in good company. This is a great audio manufacturing town.

 

[m8o]

Don't need but with the mix of features and performance I'm so very tempted... Kudos JDS Labs! Only thing that comes to mind to make this perfect is the ability to switch PEQ profiles (for different headphones) as I gather from amirm's post just above this or the accompanying software doesn't have that (?).

 

[staticV3]

One question, if a JDS Labs rep is reading this... Is there enough range in the input voltage regulator that this can be power by either 18V or 16V? When travelling I use this MP-3500 battery (plus the stackable MP3460 auxiliary battery) for my FiiO M17 (thus normally always set to 12V) and the voltage output options I have available to me to switch over to powering this are only 16V or 18V, not 17V.

Your battery puts out DC whereas the Element is powered by AC. They're incompatible.

 

[m8o]

Your battery puts out DC whereas the Element is powered by AC. They're incompatible.

Whut WHUT?! lol Never imagined that wall wart put out AC; didn't pixel peep the image or read close enough if that was stated (did read "it is powered by an AC transformer" but I see now assumed it implied AC-DC conversion). Big thanks for pointing that out. I'm going to re-edit my post and remove everything related to that question. Thnx again.

 

[barneycaudill]

Don't need but with the mix of features and performance I'm so very tempted... Kudos JDS Labs! Only thing that comes to mind to make this perfect is the ability to switch PEQ profiles (for different headphones) as I gather from amirm's post just above this or the accompanying software doesn't have that (?)

You can save an unlimited (I believe) number of profiles, so yes you can switch between headphones as you please

If you go to core.jdslabs.com you can play around with it without having the device