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JDS Labs Element IV DAC & HP Amp with EQ Review

Rate this DAC & HP Amp

  • 1. Poor (headless panther)

    Votes: 3 1.3%
  • 2. Not terrible (postman panther)

    Votes: 14 6.1%
  • 3. Fine (happy panther)

    Votes: 62 27.1%
  • 4. Great (golfing panther)

    Votes: 150 65.5%

  • Total voters
    229
Hello,

Don't know about others here, but I'm rather frustrated. I'd need to connect the Element IV via USB-C, yet it's reportedly not possible for the device to perform to spec without an additional peripheral. I'm a first-timer to JDS Labs; this situation doesn't make a great impression.

@jseaber, since the Element IV's price is already increasing, please consider including the Synapse isolator as part of the package.

Thanks.
 
Hello,

Don't know about others here, but I'm rather frustrated. I'd need to connect the Element IV via USB-C, yet it's reportedly not possible for the device to perform to spec without an additional peripheral. I'm a first-timer to JDS Labs; this situation doesn't make a great impression.

@jseaber, since the Element IV's price is already increasing, please consider including the Synapse isolator as part of the package.

Thanks.
Not sure what gave you the idea that the Element IV can be powered off USB.

The product page is pretty clear about this:
Screenshot_20250115-091927_Chrome~2.png
 
I don't read that post as having anything to do with power. The comment seems to be about the need and additional cost for the extra USB isolator to remove noise from the signal.
You're right, I misread.

I still disagree though. A USB isolator is never required to reach the spec, but can help achieve it in suboptimal conditions at some homes.

There's nothing special about the Element IV that would necessitate an isolator more than any other DAC+Amp on the market.
 
You're right, I misread.

I still disagree though. A USB isolator is never required to reach the spec, but can help achieve it in suboptimal conditions at some homes.

There's nothing special about the Element IV that would necessitate an isolator more than any other DAC+Amp on the market.

Amir mentioned that he'd experienced the same need with JDS products before, and I don't recall off the top of my head another review that required a USB isolator for this purpose. That said, my fuzzy memory is far from definitive as I certainly don't remember the details of every single one, and his Synapse and Neuron isolator review makes it sound like additional steps such as grounding are frequently required as part of the review process. It would be annoying though to buy an amp at this price and find out you now suddenly need an isolator as well if it has never been needed before.
 
Amir mentioned that he'd experienced the same need with JDS products before, and I don't recall off the top of my head another review that required a USB isolator for this purpose. That said, my fuzzy memory is far from definitive as I certainly don't remember the details of every single one. It would be annoying though to buy an amp at this price and find out you now suddenly need an isolator as well if it has never been needed before.
The measurement tool chain used by Amir is not exactly representative of real-world use. It may require an USB isolator to measure the DAC properly, but I don’t believe it means the isolator is a must in typical use-cases.
Most likely not needed, with a YMMV disclaimer?
 
The measurement tool chain used by Amir is not exactly representative of real-world use. It may require an USB isolator to measure the DAC properly, but I don’t believe it means the isolator is a must in typical use-cases.
Most likely not needed, with a YMMV disclaimer?
Yeah, that's exactly what I was getting at with my edit. The Element review can perhaps be read by someone cruising into ASR for the first time as if the need is something common to JDS products when that may not be the case.
 
Hello,

Don't know about others here, but I'm rather frustrated. I'd need to connect the Element IV via USB-C, yet it's reportedly not possible for the device to perform to spec without an additional peripheral. I'm a first-timer to JDS Labs; this situation doesn't make a great impression.

@jseaber, since the Element IV's price is already increasing, please consider including the Synapse isolator as part of the package.

Thanks.
I have been using the Element 4 for about a month. There is no NEED for the isolation device. I personally am not worried about 1 or 2 dB of SINAD as it is only a partial reflection of performance. If fact, JDS let's you play around with lots of settings that most don't let you. The unit is actually capable of even better measured performance at the expense of connection reliability if you want to dig that deep into it.
 
@JimmyBuckets linked to a YouTube review earlier in this thread. The reviewer certainly seems to believe that the USB isolator would be an important consideration for any potential Element IV customer.

So, we're 2 for 2---two reviews, two mentions of the need for USB isolation.

What's lacking here is clarity: when, and under what conditions, does the problem occur? Would it truly have no meaningful impact in every reasonable use case? From what I've seen, there's not enough information to arrive at a reasonable conclusion.

Audio Science Review is centered around veracity and objectivity. Shouldn't we strive to avoid offhand dismissals such as, Well, you couldn't hear it anyway, so why worry? Such attitudes would seem at odds with this site's mission.
 
What's lacking here is clarity: when, and under what conditions, does the problem occur? Would it truly have no meaningful impact in every reasonable use case? From what I've seen, there's not enough information to arrive at a reasonable conclusion.
It will occur when there is a ground-related noise issue in the system (ground loop, leakage current or modulation of ground voltage). That is a system issue, although it is possible for individual devices to be more or less sensitive to it when it does occur. That sensitivity isn't tested here. It is an inherent problem in systems with single ended interconnects. Systems using balanced interconnects will be immune IF all components are correctly implemented. Unfortunately that isn't always the case - components still exist with a 'pin 1 problem' despite the existence of the AES48 standard telling people how to do it properly. Have a look at the application notes from Jensen Transformers for more details - AN007 has deep coverage including a systematic method of isolating ground related noise issues, and a way to inject ground noise to check for such problems. A USB isolator is one tool useful in treating a common source of ground related noise issues.
 
@JimmyBuckets linked to a YouTube review earlier in this thread. The reviewer certainly seems to believe that the USB isolator would be an important consideration for any potential Element IV customer.

So, we're 2 for 2---two reviews, two mentions of the need for USB isolation.

What's lacking here is clarity: when, and under what conditions, does the problem occur? Would it truly have no meaningful impact in every reasonable use case? From what I've seen, there's not enough information to arrive at a reasonable conclusion.

Audio Science Review is centered around veracity and objectivity. Shouldn't we strive to avoid offhand dismissals such as, Well, you couldn't hear it anyway, so why worry? Such attitudes would seem at odds with this site's mission.
Sort of? Maybe? I guess? But only if you want to take Audio that seriously. JDS has an email (I'm pretty sure) and I think, they kinda might sorta answer it every one and again.
 
What's lacking here is clarity: when, and under what conditions, does the problem occur? Would it truly have no meaningful impact in every reasonable use case? From what I've seen, there's not enough information to arrive at a reasonable conclusion.
I don't think we are going to find the level of clarity you're seeking...

That is a system issue, although it is possible for individual devices to be more or less sensitive to it when it does occur.
System issue means there is no absolute answer. In particular, there is no answer if you just consider the Element IV in isolation of the system it's being used. It just "depends....". An infinite number of systems = an infinite number of answer > no "clarity" is possible.

If you drive Element IV from a PC having a poor (noisy) USB sub-system and connect it to a DVR having its own DSP, Amp., etc. (multiple sources of noise), the DVR feeding a couple of powered subwoofers... each of those components having its own power supply, connected to separate power outlets... You have a system that is prone to ground loops. It does not mean it's going to happen, but if happens, a USB isolator is one way to address the issue.

OTOH, if you use Element IV as a DAC/Amp, driving a (passive) headphone, not connected to anything else. The likelihood of a ground loop issue in that (simple) system is very low. A USB isolator is most likely not needed.
 
I tend to agree with the posts directly above.

I would add that if one's use case even necessitated it, the 3D Printed version of the Synapse Ground Loop Isolator ($49 US) is a small price to pay for a DAC of this quality which is currently priced at $499.
 
System issue means there is no absolute answer. In particular, there is no answer if you just consider the Element IV in isolation of the system it's being used. It just "depends....". An infinite number of systems = an infinite number of answer > no "clarity" is possible.
Correct. The tests don't show whether or not the Element IV is unusually sensitive to ground noise issues. The use of single ended outputs (RCA) mean there is inherent potential for a problem, but the same could be said of many DACs in that price range. Domestic HiFi tends to stick with RCA because it usually works well enough for most people, but we have a constant stream of questions from the minority who suffer from noise issues. They can usually be fixed by following the process in Jensen Transformers' AN007 to find the best point to break the ground connection by using a suitable isolator. This could be a USB isolator, an optical cable, a transformer isolator etc.
 
Correct. The tests don't show whether or not the Element IV is unusually sensitive to ground noise issues. The use of single ended outputs (RCA) mean there is inherent potential for a problem, but the same could be said of many DACs in that price range. Domestic HiFi tends to stick with RCA because it usually works well enough for most people, but we have a constant stream of questions from the minority who suffer from noise issues. They can usually be fixed by following the process in Jensen Transformers' AN007 to find the best point to break the ground connection by using a suitable isolator. This could be a USB isolator, an optical cable, a transformer isolator etc.
JDS gives you the ability to change the level of noise rejection right from the on board menu.
 
What do you think the next iteration of the Element will be in a few years?

From a long read of all these posts about it, there doesn’t seem to be much left to be improved.

All I could come up with is:- newer DAC? and maybe an internal PSU, (or option to run it from usb power delivery?)To be honest I don’t really care about DACs, but the wall plug was the one thing that made me maybe hold off and not order this time around.
 
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What do you think the next iteration of the Element will be in a few years?

From a long read of all these posts about it, there doesn’t seem to be much left to be improved.

All I could come up with is:- newer DAC? and maybe an internal PSU, (or option to run it off usb power delivery?)To be honest I don’t really care about DACs, but the wall plug was the one thing that made me maybe hold off and not order this time around.
Differential Line out would be nice.
 
I've had a couple of days with the Element IV and I can say the technical performance is excellent. It comes off a very small bit warmer than my DX5 but so did my Element II as well. I agree with Headphones.com's assessment of the sound signature. Build quality is very high as you'd expect from JDS. Operating the mechanics (in this case the knob) is fantastic.

That said, I was not aware that they removed the hard 0 and 100% stops from the knob. This is a big negative for me as I often used those stops to accurately adjust volume without having to look at the unit or to adjust volume from any orientation. As a person with impaired vision even when wearing glasses, it's very hard to read the small screen and often I'm viewing the unit from multiple orientations.

I very much like the unit but in my very specific case I think I'm going to go back to using my Element II.
 
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