JDS Labs Element III Review (DAC & Amp)

[audiofun]

Cool, I actually did not know you could get more power out of it by just upgrading to a better power supply, makes sense. Are there limitations to this? (How much power can I reasonably expect to gain) any info or links would be tremendously helpful.

JDS official page indirectly hinted this:

Power: Atom Amp+ renders the same clean output power as the original, which is more than enough for over 99.9% of listeners. JDS Labs actively opposes shipping larger transformers to realize vastly unnecessary power specs. We understand our reasonable customers would even prefer to see smaller transformers. We’re confident Atom Amp+ strikes the right balance of enough power, and not too much. We made no changes to the output stage. Retuning the input stage slightly increased maximum output voltage at higher headphone impedances.

If you read between the lines, it means JDS could easily reach a higher output power spec by shipping larger power supplies, but in reality the stock one is already enough for most people.

The internal regulars (317 and 337), output drivers (49600) all support much higher current (250mA per channel) without any issue.

 

[Veri]

Isn't that what the 9038D's engraved settings relate to?

Yes Ivan calibrates all of his 9038x dongles using the THD compensation register. Unfortunately I've just learnt the 9038d won't be made any longer for the time being since all required components have gone up too much in price...

 

[Berwhale]

Does the volume knob control the DAC output and headphone output? It sounds stupid, but I haven't seen combo products have that feature.

I don't know about the Element III, but the volume control on the Topping EX5 controls both the headphone and pre-amp output volume and remembers each setting independently (so it doesn't blow your speakers/eardrums when switching between them).

 

[amirm]

Does the volume knob control the DAC output and headphone output? It sounds stupid, but I haven't seen combo products have that feature.

Yes, it controls both but there is no "auto gain" on the RCA outputs. It just goes up to 1.9 volt and stops there.

 

[Kegemusha]

Looks really nice, except the price

 

[Bernard23]

Digital volume control is the biggest improvement. Perfect channel balance makes a huge difference when listening at low volumes.

The announcement blog post has some more details on the changes from Element II to III: https://blog.jdslabs.com/2022/01/jds-labs-element-iii-official-release-benchmarks/

Yes, I missed that in the original review, thanks! I don't have an issue as I don't use it at low levels, but I am aware it's an issue for some users. Thanks for the link!

 

[Bernard23]

I wonder how it might have turned out had the silicon shortage not impacted the choice of chipset. It looks good, but not enough to warrant upgrading from the II

 

[nyxnyxnyx]

I think this is a stellar product but can definitely understand the pricing is high enough for others to consider, especially when there are so many other great products in the current market (already accounted for superb customer service from JDS Lab).
I think this package will prove to be more attractive if they can keep up with firmware updates and bring something cool to it. I liked the idea of having a "tube simulation" firmware in their atom DAC, even if it is not so audible.

I have a feeling if they include XLR connections and somehow change the type of bulky power supply they're using, they can definitely make an all-in-one end game solution for many headgear lovers.

 

[GeekyBastard]

With today's throat-cutting Hi-fi market, good customer service + okay performance doesn't really justify the price, a device like Topping EX5 could easily outperform it, giving you even more I/O and functionality, while costing $100 less.

 

[Bernard23]

But if you cannot reliably hear the difference, then maybe that extra $100 is worth it for the extra customer service?

 

[Veri]

But if you cannot reliably hear the difference, then maybe that extra $100 is worth it for the extra customer service?

Indeed

And I'm pretty sure that JDS has indicated that for now they see no benefit in adding balanced/XLR to their devices. It's supposed to be products that pair easy with a laptop, desktop, PS5 switch... into common headphones/earphones.

Balanced is something audiophiles get excited about but it's really been most beneficial in professional/studio/speaker use. In a consumer headphone product I agree it's hardly necessary but not everyone would agree I'm sure
But I'm with JDS on this one. They could consider small form factor TRS inputs on a future head-amp though, for balanced common mode rejection in case of problems, without bloating their compact casing too much..

 

[GeekyBastard]

But if you cannot reliably hear the difference, then maybe that extra $100 is worth it for the extra customer service?

Of course, but if I want to connect it to my balanced equipment someday, or stream some music over Bluetooth, the JDS one works no better than a brick, a $100 more one even, customer support couldn't solve lack of connectivity.

 

[audiofun]

And I'm pretty sure that JDS for now sees no benefit in adding balanced/XLR to their devices. It's supposed to be products that pair easy with a laptop, desktop, PS5 switch into headphones/earphones.

There is zero need for a device like JDS Element (or most DACs reviewed here) to add balanced output. Zero. Promoting balanced output only allows manufacturers to steal more money from customers. Balanced output has cheaper cost than single ended(BOM of D10 balanced cost less than D10s unbalanced, as there's no need to do differential summing).

Just use a RCA -> XLR adapter with a resistor between ground and inverted phase that matches the output impedance, and you have balanced signal. I wired various DACs this way and can verify via balanced ADC that it works flawlessly, and have super high CMRR and zero ground loop noise, even if you intentionally introduce a ground loop there.

 

[Bernard23]

Indeed

And I'm pretty sure that JDS has indicated that for now they see no benefit in adding balanced/XLR to their devices. It's supposed to be products that pair easy with a laptop, desktop, PS5 switch... into common headphones/earphones.

Balanced is something audiophiles get excited about but it's really been most beneficial in professional/studio/speaker use. In a consumer headphone product I agree it's hardly necessary but not everyone would agree I'm sure
But I'm with JDS on this one. They could consider small form factor TRS inputs on a future head-amp though, for balanced common mode rejection in case of problems, without bloating their compact casing too much..

The only flaw is whether John has a better or worse LoD with his ears! That's one advantage of pursuing the best measurement as the primary goal

 

[Bernard23]

Of course, but if I want to connect it to my balanced equipment someday, or stream some music over Bluetooth, the JDS one works no better than a brick, a $100 more one even.

Yes, but that's like buying a car to wash your dishes. no one "needs" XLR unless you're sitting on the moon.

 

[GeekyBastard]

Yes, but that's like buying a car to wash your dishes. no one "needs" XLR unless you're sitting on the moon.

I'd like to pay less for more, rather than pay more for less, especially for things like “good” customer support while perform worse, but you can choose whatever you like, it's not my money anyway.

 

[audiofun]

With today's throat-cutting Hi-fi market, good customer service + okay performance doesn't really justify the price, a device like Topping EX5 could easily outperform it, giving you even more I/O and functionality, while costing $100 less.

JDS element is expensive because it has good enclosure quality. The CNC-ed aluminum costs much more than the assembled PCB.
If you just want to go cheaper, JDS has Atom line. Transparent, good support, and made in the US.

 

[GeekyBastard]

JDS element is expensive because it has good enclosure quality. The CNC-ed aluminum costs much more than the assembled PCB.
If you just want to go cheaper, JDS has Atom line. Transparent, good support, and made in the US.

I'd rather not pay for “premium material” with worse performance and connectivity, but thank you for your suggestion anyway.

 

[audiofun]

I'd rather not pay for “premium material” with worse performance and connectivity, but thank you for your suggestion anyway.

EX5 is just a worse product technically. Even the cheaper DX3 topping is implemented more correctly.
Review in this site doesn't tell the entire story. if you do some measurements or teardown by yourself you can easily know why.

 

[GeekyBastard]

EX5 is just a worse product technically. Even the cheaper DX3 topping is implemented more correctly.
Review in this story doesn't tell the entire story. if you do some measurements or teardown by yourself you can easily know why.

Please elaborate on why it's a worse product.

if you do some measurements or teardown by yourself you can easily know why.

As above, please elaborate.