JBL 4349 Review (Studio Monitor Speaker)

[C. Cook]

Although a product is 'made' in Mexico (or anywhere else, for that matter), that doesn't necessarily mean it is 'made' there. Possibly only assembled at the location. Component parts could well be produced in Asia (most likely are) and then shipped to the point of assembly.

Oh yes, for sure. In fact it's harder and harder to tell where stuff really comes from and where it's assembled than ever. I'm sure that JBL manufactures and assembles most of their product in China and that even the drivers and crossovers, if not also cabinets, for the really high end stuff that's assembled in Mexico are also made in China or elsewhere. Which does have me curious as to why they'd use Mexico for their most expensive speakers; is it because it's geographically closer and easier for JBL engineers and product managers to go down there and watch the process?

 

[anmpr1]

Which does have me curious as to why they'd use Mexico for their most expensive speakers; is it because it's geographically closer and easier for JBL engineers and product managers to go down there and watch the process?

Who knows the exact reason? Anything labor intensive is going to be cheaper, all other things being =, made almost anywhere else, than if it was made in the US.

Anecdote: some years ago I drove a made in Mexico GTI. Actually, most of it was made by robots in Mexico, with some additional human labor. The parts came from all over the place. I think the dual clutch transmission was sent over from Europe (an amazing piece of engineering). Overall fit and finish was as good as any car I've owned; it was actually first rate. And it didn't blow up, or otherwise cause me any particular VW-ish anxiety-- the kind you might usually expect with the brand.

The only unusual thing was the radio, which said 'Fender' on it. I was a little confused... I kept looking for the Drive, Presence, and Reverb controls, but never found them. And the effects loop was missing, too.

Anymore, where it's made isn't very meaningful, from a QC standpoint.

 

[C. Cook]

Who knows the exact reason? Anything labor intensive is going to be cheaper, all other things being =, made almost anywhere else, than if it was made in the US.

Anecdote: some years ago I drove a made in Mexico GTI. Actually, most of it was made by robots in Mexico, with some additional human labor. The parts came from all over the place. I think the dual clutch transmission was sent over from Europe (an amazing piece of engineering). Overall fit and finish was as good as any car I've owned; it was actually first rate. And it didn't blow up, or otherwise cause me any particular VW-ish anxiety-- the kind you might usually expect with the brand.

The only unusual thing was the radio, which said 'Fender' on it. I was a little confused... I kept looking for the Drive, Presence, and Reverb controls, but never found them. And the effects loop was missing, too.

Anymore, where it's made isn't very meaningful, from a QC standpoint.

Sounds like you had the same car my wife did. Hers was the 4 door Jetta GTI (or do they call it GLI) and it had the Fender radio and Fender logos on the door speakers.
Yeah, VW has had operations in Mexico for a long time. I think the last new Beetle was made there, probably using mostly German parts at the time.
During the 70s, 80s and most of the 90s VW had pretty bad QC. They weren't reliable cars at all (neither was Audi). Some time in the late 90s they did something different and the quality has been much better since, in some cases among the best for the price range.

 

[anmpr1]

During the 70s, 80s and most of the 90s VW had pretty bad QC. They weren't reliable cars at all (neither was Audi). Some time in the late 90s they did something different and the quality has been much better since, in some cases among the best for the price range.

I'm reminded of the (true) anecdote about the group's QC. Ferdinand Piech told it to Bob Lutz. Scandalized by the poor fit and finish of the company's products, the old man called his production managers to his office and said they had a few weeks to figure it out; how to get things right, or else they'd be fired. They got it right.

Of course Lutz said that that management style was also responsible (in Lutz's opinion) for the diesel debacle, where engineers and management were simply afraid not to meet the expectations, and subsequently took the hidden low-road.

I think it is fair to say that people tend to rise (or fall) to whatever level of expectations are set. And without guidance, and certainly without standards, things always fall apart. We see it in audio all the time.

 

[C. Cook]

I'm reminded of the (true) anecdote about the group's QC. Ferdinand Piech told it to Bob Lutz. Scandalized by the poor fit and finish of the company's products, the old man called his production managers to his office and said they had a few weeks to figure it out; how to get things right, or else they'd be fired. They got it right.

Of course Lutz said that that management style was also responsible (in Lutz's opinion) for the diesel debacle, where engineers and management were simply afraid not to meet the expectations, and subsequently took the hidden low-road.

I think it is fair to say that people tend to rise (or fall) to whatever level of expectations are set. And without guidance, and certainly without standards, things always fall apart. We see it in audio all the time.

Obviously we're way off-topic now, but my curiosity is piqued. It's not a quick or simple thing to go from bad QC to great QC for products as complex as cars; especially given what we all know about parts coming from all over the place. There had to have been a corporate initiative put in place stretching to every originating point of each supply chain (or at least the ones where quality was obviously bad). It's also curious to me that a German corporation like Volkswagen would have been so far behind the Japanese in terms of quality. I wonder if they brought in some Japanese or American process improvement consultants or something (most of the continuous improvement methodologies originated in the U.S. with a few first used in Japan). I'm sure there are books written about how VW turned things around. I did see a pretty good documentary on the diesel scandal too and you're right; what took me by surprise was how much effort was expended to falsify the test results when the same amount of effort might've been applied to actually fixing the issue (or determining once and for all that the aims were unachievable with current technologies at the time).

 

[Tom C]

The Reckoning by David Halberstam was published in 1986, so is pretty old now, but is a very interesting comparison of Ford Motor Company and Nissan, and how Ford turned around some very serious quality problems back in the 1980’s. Still a worthwhile read.

 

[amirm]

I was just curious if Amir knew the exact answer; seems like something a distributor or installer would have asked the exact reason so that they could explain to customers.

There is nothing to ask when the price increase is across the board and you are dealing with a multi-billion dollar company.

 

[anmpr1]

... (or do they call it GLI) and it had the Fender radio and Fender logos on the door speakers.

Some brands sell themselves, and some brands almost sell themselves. Fender is in the first category (like Gibson). Fender has its name is on a record player (licensed), and Gibson sold a brand of small desktop 'monitors' finished in 'burst', several years ago.

JBL as a brand is almost as iconic. Maybe JBL is just as iconic. How much of it (in Fender, Gibson, and JBL) is related to the rock and roll scene? Probably a lot.

 

[C. Cook]

There is nothing to ask when the price increase is across the board and you are dealing with a multi-billion dollar company.

Fair enough - I don't have access to their pricing other than what shows up at online stores that sell their high-end Synthesis line. I've seen their prices dropping, however, on items like the Studio 5XX line and a few JBL branded shower radios, so from here it seemed like they are targeting price rises toward the mostly-not-regular-consumer stuff.

 

[Andysu]

Some brands sell themselves, and some brands almost sell themselves. Fender is in the first category (like Gibson). Fender has its name is on a record player (licensed), and Gibson sold a brand of small desktop 'monitors' finished in 'burst', several years ago.

JBL as a brand is almost as iconic. Maybe JBL is just as iconic. How much of it (in Fender, Gibson, and JBL) is related to the rock and roll scene? Probably a lot.

JBL 4341 and gibson at abbey road with LSO james horner

 

[Dougey_Jones]

JBL 4341 and gibson at abbey road with LSO james horner

View attachment 213856

I'd say that JBL is just as iconic as Fender and Gibson. I'm pleased with Harman's continued efforts to move the brand back upmarket, after years of being a big box store punchline. It wasn't enough to just have the Synthesis line.

 

[anmpr1]

I'd say that JBL is just as iconic as Fender and Gibson. I'm pleased with Harman's continued efforts to move the brand back upmarket, after years of being a big box store punchline. It wasn't enough to just have the Synthesis line.

The marketing angle can't be underestimated, just like the good-will that a brand name evokes cannot (and shouldn't) ever be sullied. It is certainly possible to ruin an established name with shoddy product; especially if it is a second tier brand. But Gibson demonstrates that no matter how questionable the quality, an important name is going to be able to overcome an awful lot. Current management appears to be aware, and seems to be making changes for the better.

At the same time, it is very difficult to keep selling the exact same thing you sold fifty years ago, without some sort of updating. Even with classic guitars, a Strat or Telecaster, you can always get 'modern' versions... 'reissued' sixties versions... seventies versions... paranormal versions... artist versions--the list is endless. Whenever you update, you must always evoke a similar 'feel' as what is found in the legacy product. And you have to know where to draw the line. Red and blue sculptured foam grills on the new L100 are OK, and in fact mandatory. Robo tuners on a Les Paul are never OK.

Profitability usually means selling a lot of product. Selling a lot is difficult with any hand made, labor intensive product. Similarly, you want to keep the price high enough to maintain a certain 'exclusivity'. But at the same time you'd like to have something that you can sell to the average consumer, without cannibalizing the main brand.

Gibson has Epiphone. Fender has Squire. The idea is that as players get older, and have more dollars, they'll gravitate to the main umbrella brand. You can see all of that in the hi-fi arena, with JBL.

I would guess (and it is only a guess) that in consumer space, JBL's 'lifestyle' products carry the water for the brand. Then the home theater stuff selling at a popular price point. Stage, HDI, and the more expensive Classic line. But unlike Gibson (and Fender), who sell an expensive made in the USA guitar next to a less expensive Qingdao or Malaysian made instrument, I believe all JBL loudspeakers, even the Classic line, are stamped out in Malaysia (or is it Indonesia?). So I'm also guessing that JBL's strictly labor related cost is the same for an L100 Classic as it is for their low end Stage product. It's not like they brought back the old Northridge shop and are paying a USA skilled wage rate. I could be mistaken, for sure.

For a long time the company didn't even sell their 'classic' line of monitor loudspeakers in the US. In Japan you could always buy an updated 'modern' take on the 4311/L100, or another of their 'monitor' loudspeakers. [BTW, the second hand market for old JBL studio monitors is through the roof in Tokyo. In Accuphase territory.] I don't know why JBL marketing didn't recognize that need and opportunity, in the American marketplace? To me it always seemed like a marketing no-brainer. Think about who has any money, these days? A hi-fi oriented 'boomer', one who would never buy a Harley Davidson, but remembers his old Kenwood or Pioneer receiver, would probably not think twice about buying an L100 Classic. And a youngster just getting into rock n roll vinyl? JBL has the L82 and L52 (whatever those are) for them. Sure, the ASR crowd isn't going to go for it. But why should JBL care about that when they have their other ASR approved product?

Finally, the nostalgic buyer should get a 'suitable for framing' Maxell 'blown away' poster with his purchase. If I was in charge of marketing, each boxed pair would include a poster. Why aren't they doing that? Maybe they are.

Klipsch does the same with their 'popular/affordable' line, and their expensive 'heritage' loudspeakers. But unlike JBL, Klipsch never abandoned their heritage line in the US.

 

[Modmini]

Oh yes, for sure. In fact it's harder and harder to tell where stuff really comes from and where it's assembled than ever. I'm sure that JBL manufactures and assembles most of their product in China and that even the drivers and crossovers, if not also cabinets, for the really high end stuff that's assembled in Mexico are also made in China or elsewhere. Which does have me curious as to why they'd use Mexico for their most expensive speakers; is it because it's geographically closer and easier for JBL engineers and product managers to go down there and watch the process

I came across this discussion late as i was curious about the 4349 speaker. I will weigh in quickly on a couple of questions posed. The original decision to move to Mexico was defiinitely trying to keep manufacturing costs down and was part of an overall Harman strategy throughout all divisions- Pro, lifestyle, consumer - to manufacture in "Best Cost Countries" the belief was it necessistiy to do this if the company was to remain competitive in the world market. While i wasn't a fan of it at the time, decade or more down the road it was probably the right decision for most products.

In terms of picking Mexico, certainly part of the decision was based on it was close (relative to China/Asia) to the Northridge offices where Pro and Lifestyle are based but just as important this is Harman owned facility and not a contract manufacturer which allows greater control and flexibility in making changes to manufacturing, either to allow design change implementation or to shift production over to a different product based upon demand. For Asian contract manufacturers such a change would take at least 3 months to implement plus at least a month (in the good ol' days) in on the water to arrive- this sort of example not would likely take 6 months.

Also Mexicio made sense in that shipping and transporation costs of larger items like PA speakers and large Studio Monitors (M2) would be lower and again have shorter lead times if shipped from China. By happenstance the choice of Mexico was advantageous when the China Import Tarriffs were announced and also COVID shutdowns were shorter in Mexico than Asia. The China tarrifs has actually driven business to other contract manufacturers in other parts of Asia like Malaysia.

In a few posts down there was some reference to reason for price increases. I didn't see the OP but in short price increases as Amir mentions were across the board for the most part, in certain divisions there may have been so modifications where there might be cost-sensitive competitive issues. All of the price increases are driven by paying signifjcant increases in electric components, wood, plastic along with even higher increases in the cost of shipping containers from Asia and generally increased transportation costs. Loudspeakers, particularly passive, are less effected from electronic component costs but in many cases purchases are having to be made on the open/spot market for IC chips/FPGAs etc at absolutely crazy prices and that pain has to be absorbed by all.

 

[C. Cook]

In terms of picking Mexico, certainly part of the decision was based on it was close (relative to China/Asia) to the Northridge offices where Pro and Lifestyle are based but just as important this is Harman owned facility and not a contract manufacturer which allows greater control and flexibility in making changes to manufacturing, either to allow design change implementation or to shift production over to a different product based upon demand. For Asian contract manufacturers such a change would take at least 3 months to implement plus at least a month (in the good ol' days) in on the water to arrive- this sort of example not would likely take 6 months.

That's what I figured. Makes sense, but...

All of the price increases are driven by paying signifjcant increases in electric components, wood, plastic along with even higher increases in the cost of shipping containers from Asia and generally increased transportation costs. Loudspeakers, particularly passive, are less effected from electronic component costs but in many cases purchases are having to be made on the open/spot market for IC chips/FPGAs etc at absolutely crazy prices and that pain has to be absorbed by all.

Here's where I start to wonder about profit margins. It's pretty well known that retail dealers already have plenty of leeway to jack up their prices above whatever 'wholesale' costs from Harman, etc. are. In the case of the 4349 that now sits at $8250/pr up from $7500/pr, retail. You can't buy it direct from Harman that I know of. So what was the point in having every single dealer, some of whom can comfortably still list these speakers for 7500, uniformly and across the board raise the retail/list price by ___%? Even dealers with back stock purchased before the massive inflation, or even the pandemic, are raising their prices - and I mean ones like Music Direct who claim to have them in their warehouse. It's just strange to me how it happened everywhere, all at once. Meanwhile other mfg's are actually lowering prices or keeping them the same.

 

[Modmini]

RE: Pricing... When any (or most) large manufacturer issues new pricing it also affects the MAP/Minimum Advertised Price which essentially sets the street price of the product. This is the price that dealers who maintain a significant On-line prescence like Audio Advisor, Music Direct, etc.. show on their websites. This MAP price may be enforced independently by the manufacturer or by a third party company who monitors the price on behalf of the manufacturer. This explains the cross the board increase.

This does not prevent the dealer from selling below the price and in fact if you were actively looking for a 4349 or whatever and you had noticed there had been a recent price increase its a reasonable ask to if you could buy it at the old price. Obviously this would be easier to do with a local dealer than on-line but an e-mail or a call to someone like MD would work as well.

I'm intimately involved with the professional side of the industry so don't pay attention to what consumer audio/Audiophile companies are doing with their prices but i find it surprising that there a lot of companies lowering their prices. I know for absolute fact that all pro audio companies are incurring signficant increases as mentioned before that affect the entire supply chain. ADC, DAC, Opamps, FPGA, Microprocessor, etc prices have skyrocketed if you can get them at all. Same with wood, plastic pellets used for plastic molding, it goes on and on. Container shipments costs have doubled. Pro Audio companies are eating a portion of this cost and most have increased prices from between 5 to 15% since 2020 with the potential for additional increases if things don't improve.

 

[C. Cook]

Good info, thanks. In most cases I've seen prices stay the same, but in some they have gone down. Of course I'm partially going on Amazon for this data, so it could be influenced by their algorithms rather than actual mfg or retailer actions.

 

[Head_Unit]

Way cooler to have next to the telly than most slim-boxes.

It would be really interesting if they made tower versions of these things, big enclosure to dig deeper into the bass. Never happen due to low return on investment...guess I'll have to make my own. But this review reminds me of the difficulties!

 

[Head_Unit]

But [organ] remains the king of instruments.

I had to do a navigation test drive near Salt Lake City because the entire state database had been miscoded. A friend said "DO go see the pin drop demo, and on Wednesdays there is an organ concert!" My coworker was highly up for that. Amazingly by heavenly coincidence our schedule worked out so we could attend (since I was the one planning the schedule ). WOW so cool. Also amazingly by heavenly coincidence our schedule worked out so we could have dinner with that friend on the outdoor terrance of the Zion National Park Lodge at sunset . We had to drive the test Mercedes M-Class 80+ mph on a gravel road south of Bryce Canyon, but with no cops or animals about we made it!


Later I managed to attend a recital of the Spreckels organ in Balboa Park, San Diego with the friend. Spreckels had some connection to some other place or thing which I'll have to ask the friend about.

 

[Head_Unit]

Hello All,

A couple more plots.

Jbl 2123H mid range; crossover at 400Hz and 2000Hz, extends well below and above XO frequencies.

Today I am using sealed woofers in 2.1 cubic foot boxes; extends well below sub-woofer XO frequency, 75Hz and above mid XO frequency.

View attachment 130102View attachment 130103

What are the measurement conditions and scales? And how well does that thing hold up off-axis (and to what frequency?) I looked some but see no measurement's except JBL's own silly data sheet curve.

 

[Head_Unit]

Is it my imagination, or does the tweeter crossover stop working below like 900 Hz?!?