Is there even a tiny bit of truth in all the marketing voodoo that audio cable manufacturers say? Or is it all BS?

[madrac]

Yeah for example something like this ... excerpt from https://avisolation.com/product/m3x2-isolation-base/

View attachment 413982
Overengineered much?

Like I understand for record players and speakers yes they are affected by vibrations and resonance.. but amplifiers and DACs? those are solid state and have no moving parts.

$3000 and up from a 2020 price list I found from a quick google search. My Symposium Segue Iso was a couple of hundred dollars, as I recall (B-Stock). Even new, they aren't overly expensive. That leaves around $2500 for more LPS

 

[tomtoo]

Influence of vibrations to solid state equipment?
@amirm could you not test this? Just some kind of vibration plate? And then measure? Just to get that sh## out of discussion?

 

[SIY]

no just something ive been practicing doing on cables. i personally want something with the least amount of resistance.

I'll try hard to be nice, but will gently point out that this isn't the correct way to measure low resistances.

 

[Mnyb]

Influence of vibrations to solid state equipment?
@amirm could you not test this? Just some kind of vibration plate? And then measure? Just to get that sh## out of discussion?

Strap a 100$ DAC in a paint shaker and measure

 

[Jim Taylor]

Influence of vibrations to solid state equipment?
@amirm could you not test this? Just some kind of vibration plate? And then measure? Just to get that sh## out of discussion?

Giving time and effort to claims known to be specious grants them a credence they do not deserve.

 

[tomtoo]

Strap a 100$ DAC in a paint shaker and measure

Or fly in a DC10? Who cares as long it vibrates?

 

[antcollinet]

here ill simplify it for you

in my professional opinion i think these things:
analytical data pulled against "used" cables is very very useful. as this demonstrates what is available from tip to tip that any said consumer is experiencing while in use. i do not believe new cables are exemplary examples yet, as i am on the fence still about cable break in.
i believe that to perform a test it must be done on the spot, without changes to user position, opinion based on group events, and or with time in itself being used as trickery to determine if said persons can hear the difference.

one of the flaws in testing anything is TIME. time creates uncertainty where immediate results can determine a actual real life change, not cognitive perception rather.

i do believe cables have a range. and i do think it would be impossible to determine the benefit of any cable if they were too close in initial specifications. meaning a variation of a small percentage is fractional percentage in quality would be a test fail. one of these topics is subjective to the fact that almost no PURE COPPER ONLY CABLE coming from numerous companies can not be determined to be any different, but similar if not from same manufacturing processes or supply chains. you cannot, establish a difference when these standards are so similar. a example would be a cheap copper cable, against MAYBE the best mild priced copper cable. its still just copper and that name brand company probably isn't being honest and they are claiming high grade copper for a upsale. i value this concept since often name brand companies label high grade for basic run of the mill product.

now i do think from a stastic scale, from cheapest materials.......to.........highest grade materials we will se a noticeable difference. this is the testing that should be practiced. testing a run of the mill cable against a seriously high end cable. there is no slider for the in between or cables that are leaning to one side. you will either have a noticeable difference or not. plain and simple for the user.

the test procedure i would agree could actually validate blindly is....
two systems that are side by side, say one of the room to the other, and the consumer only has to turn around. no gaps in playback. just muting each side.
each has identical hours on both systems and speakers. preferably extremely high resolving components and speakers. i vehemently believe that cheap stuff may be lacking in ability to resolve or present these artifacts or benefits.

two cables tested, side by side, no gaps, and identical hardware and hours on the components, meaning not two new systems of different nature, they can be close to new, but often testing is done with whatever hardware people have laying around and this is a lackluster for results.

my argument is time itself is a results problem. changing new cables is a results problem. we have to take into account all the factors people claim when they make claims about liking one cable over the other. there has never been a side by side mirror system test with. only cable differences and mute over each side would be empirical to side by side testing.

if you wanted to take the ten best cables on the market and dish them out against a cheapo cable. you would need ten systems all lined up and wired with only a cable change. you cant just swap cables or do a a/b with different hardware and expect people to figure it out.

And you have not one scrap of evidence to support one word of that nonsense. You clearly also lack any technical knowledge regarding what you are saying. Clearly there is no point trying to correct your lack of understanding of anything regarding audio, since you have zero interest in learning. I have no idea why you came to ASR.

I'm out.

 

[Jim Taylor]

A member here, @livinon2wheels, posted this today in another thread regarding cables. It's a wonderful assessment.

It totally baffles me (yes that would be an infinite baffle ) what possesses people to believe the cable hype. I think much of it is driven by the notion that there are so many people who don't have a basic understanding of how electrical signals are transferred down a wire and what things can interfere with that happening. When you are technically challenged and someone tries to sell you something that is technically not necessary for the job at hand, you become an easy mark for BS explanations of imagined problems and supposed solutions. Sadly there are many who love music but lack a solid understanding of what it takes to reproduce it in a sound system at home. The voids in their knowledge leave them open to snake oil schemes and at the top of the list is all these high priced cables. They have money to spend and the desire to create a sound system but not enough knowledge to avoid the pitfalls that ensnare the uneducated enthusiasts. Some of them will eventually see the folly in their convictions but many will not. And there is the crux of the problem. The salesman said these would improve system clarity or whatever and when things are said with a straight face and apparent sincerity, many of us just believe and then the expectation is that we will hear the improvement...and lo and behold we think we do because otherwise we have to admit we were taken for a ride. Many people will go blissfully forward thinking this ridiculous expenditure made an audible difference. All we can do is try to educate the misinformed and steer them away from the scammers. The smart people will listen and learn, the dumb ones won't. You can't fix stupid.

 

[tomtoo]

Giving time and effort to claims known to be specious grants them a credence they do not deserve.

I know. But hell how often proofs science that the earth is not flat over and over again? Needet? Not realy. But one more proof can not be that bad.

 

[Joe Smith]

A lot of this is about bragging rights, I feel - "my stereo is so good, the cables alone cost me 2 grand..." etc. When you have $30,000 in your setup, and there's really nothing else to buy, and your significant other is beginning to glare at you every time she walks by the rig, what's a feller to do? Buy cables, I guess.

 

[Jim Taylor]

I know. But hell how often proofs science that the earth is not flat over and over again? Needet? Not realy. But one more proof can not be that bad.

With all due respect, if you wish one more proof added to those that have already been done, even when it is admittedly not really needed, please spend the time and do the work yourself rather than place the onus on someone else who is already quite busy.

 

[tomtoo]

With all due respect, if you wish one more proof added to those that have already been done, even when it is admittedly not really needed, please spend the time and do the work yourself rather than place the onus on someone else who is already quite busy.

You are right. I just wanted to see amir on yt how he handles the equipment on a vibration test.

 

[ElJaimito]

Is this a troll?

 

[Esprit]

Maybe they already do. Now that would be next level voodoo.

Search Vovox and you will see how from a pro product you can create a "hi-fi" product sold at least 5 times as much.

 

[Blumlein 88]

Strap a 100$ DAC in a paint shaker and measure

I've done the thing measuring a few DACs while sitting on a subwoofer while subs are playing various impactful sounds. Couldn't measure a difference. I figure for the most part in its normal use a DAC will see lower levels of vibration than the test conditions on a sub.

 

[Jim Taylor]

Is this a troll?

Is water wet? Do flies fly?

In spite of our convictions, The Management has expressed the opinion that we should give questionable posters the opportunity to hoist themselves on their own petard, in case that there is a change of heart at the last minute. Who am I to disagree? (cue Annie Lennox)

 

[Mnyb]

I've done the thing measuring a few DACs while sitting on a subwoofer while subs are playing various impactful sounds. Couldn't measure a difference. I figure for the most part in its normal use a DAC will see lower levels of vibration than the test conditions on a sub.

Ive had and have active speakers with DAC’s inside I’m quite sure the spl and vibration inside the speakers or severe compared to sitting on a shelf .

 

[tomtoo]

I've done the thing measuring a few DACs while sitting on a subwoofer while subs are playing various impactful sounds. Couldn't measure a difference. I figure for the most part in its normal use a DAC will see lower levels of vibration than the test conditions on a sub.

But you did the science !

 

[Mnyb]

Is water wet? Do flies fly?

In spite of our convictions, the Management has expressed the opinion that we should give questionable posters the opportunity to hoist themselves on their own petard, in case that there is a change of heart at the last minute. Who am I to disagree?

Yes it began with a cable question, now it’s every bogus audiophile claim ever made in the same post regurgitated.

 

[JiiPee]

Yeah for example something like this ... excerpt from https://avisolation.com/product/m3x2-isolation-base/

View attachment 413982
Overengineered much?

Like I understand for record players and speakers yes they are affected by vibrations and resonance.. but amplifiers and DACs? those are solid state and have no moving parts.

Then again, a good turntable is supposed to have a good vibration damping of it's own, so there should not be a need for an extra damper. Regarding vibration damping for solid state audio electronics - Whoever tries to tell You it is needed, is either a con artist, or his witless victim.