Is the HD 599 more detailed than the AKG K612 Pro and the K702?

[Robbo99999]

@solderdude , I'm just saying that in your post here you've made a typo or mistake and said "K612 and K702 measured by Sonarworks" and then shown Sonarworks graphs of K612 & K701. That's all I'm saying.
This is your post with that mistake:

Is the HD 599 more detailed than the AKG K612 Pro and the K702?

I wanted to go for the K612, but because of shipping delays I got an HD599 first and after getting the K612 it is clear to me that the HD599 is strong on detail even it its bass is a bit muddy and bloated, at least that was my initial impression. I am new to this headphone game and as the K612...

www.audiosciencereview.com

 

[solderdude]

Ah... Seems like I once downloaded the K701 plot and saved it as K702.
I had downloaded all 362 plots from that website separately.

Good catch. I just downloaded the correct plot and this is shown below.

 

[Robbo99999]

Good good

 

[Alchemist_]

The comparison in my plot was K702 vs K612.
Yes, K701 and K702 are not the same either.

Indeed unit to unit variance can certainly be a factor as well. Not all headphones are created equal.

Hello, please help with advice, I know you have measured and felt a lot of headphones.
I am interested in K612 and DT990:
1 Which of them will distort the speaker faster if it is overloaded with the low frequencies of the equalizer?
2 Which of them has more air to the ear?

 

[solderdude]

DT990 is infamous for it but needs less bass boost.
DT990 has more bass and treble.
K612 has less bass but better bass extension and is much 'clearer' in the mids and has comparable less treble quality and quantity

Do you mean room for the ears ?
K612 = Ø 60mm, depth: 22mm
DT990 = Ø 58mm, depth = 20mm
So K612 wins by 2mm. Furthermore the pads on the AKG are firmer and the foam does not as decay as fast.

 

[Dazerdoreal]

Which of them will distort the speaker faster if it is overloaded with the low frequencies of the equalizer?

Do you have the Hifiman 400se in your book? These are basically impossible to overload.
As I just saw, Solderdude also sells a filtered Hifiman 400i.

 

[Alchemist_]

DT990 is infamous for it but needs less bass boost.
DT990 has more bass and treble.
K612 has less bass but better bass extension and is much 'clearer' in the mids and has comparable less treble quality and quantity

Do you mean room for the ears ?
K612 = Ø 60mm, depth: 22mm
DT990 = Ø 58mm, depth = 20mm
So K612 wins by 2mm. Furthermore the pads on the AKG are firmer and the foam does not as decay as fast.

Ear space matters, I looked at these parameters on your site, it is very informative. But, I meant something else.
Example: Sometimes the headphones are open and there is a lot of space for the ear, but the air does not penetrate due to a large layer of any foam and other material. And some have more, others have less.

And which of the 990 / 612 can be made into a bass monster, I don't listen loudly. (Sub-bass should also be)

Now I have a Fostex t60rp, you can wind up a lot of bass there, but I would like to try something else, so that the weight is lighter, there is more room for the ears, but the sound is good.
I also have 770/80.
But 990 were a year ago, but did not take root because of the twisted cable.
(I remember the low frequency rolloff as very sharp, and by 30 hertz there is little left. Maybe, of course, I have already forgotten ... how exactly it was.)
I saw that there is a 990 Black LE with a straight cable and 80 ohms.
I'm thinking of trying them or 612.

 

[solderdude]

To turn the K612 into a bass monster requires low bass boost of +10dB
This is doable.

The DT990 needs to add a bit of low bass boost (also about +10dB) but a lowering of midbass levels as well (-5dB)

As long as the levels are not loud both should be able to do so.

I have no experience with T60RP (I do with T40/50) nor with 80 ohm DT990LE

 

[markanini]

I couldn't boost enough subbas out of K612, for my tastes, without audible distorsion, that I had to settle with a slightly lower boost. I haven't owned DT990, only demoed it a few times, DT990 has a elevated treble which requires additional EQ, maybe it's tricky to get right.

 

[solderdude]

I tried to get subbass out of the old K500/K501 and that one had the same issues as Koss Portapro, namely softclipping = suddenly increased odd order distortion becoming very obvious.

A similar thing happens to the DT990 but not as 'sudden' and at a higher level.

For K612 this very basic and simple EQ sounded fine without any ill effects at normal to somewhat loud listening levels.. not Harman bass so no rattling teeth.

For DT990 a similar simple EQ made it more enjoyable to me without any ill effects at normal to somewhat loud listening levels.

I cannot say how EQ with even more subbass than Harman would sound like and which levels could be achieved.
Maybe other headphones might be better suited.

 

[Alchemist_]

Maybe other headphones might be better suited.

Thank you for your help.
What can you buy, what to choose from? What would happen with bass and sub-bass, open, velor, ear pads size like 612/990, weight up to 310 grams.

 

[restorer-john]

not Harman bass so no rattling teeth.

I've never felt the need to increase/EQ the bass in my 702s, 601s or even my old K500s. Bass heavy headphones are putrid to my ears.

 

[solderdude]

What can you buy, what to choose from? What would happen with bass and sub-bass, open, velor, ear pads size like 612/990, weight up to 310 grams.

HD560S (but needs upper mids lowered a bit) comes to mind in that price class, weight range and being open.
Maybe even HD598/599 ?

 

[Alchemist_]

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HD560S (but needs upper mids lowered a bit) comes to mind in that price class, weight range and being open.
Maybe even HD598/599 ?

560S I tried last spring.
It's really bright) But I really liked the scene.
It also seems to be distorted with a bass equalizer.
There's a little less air for the ears.
But the main reason why I refused them is the protrusion inside the cup, when the ear cushion is pressed, it will start to touch the ear, and the headband cannot, for example, be unclenched like in 770/990/880.

 

[Robbo99999]

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жд

560S I tried last spring.
It's really bright) But I really liked the scene.
It also seems to be distorted with a bass equalizer.
There's a little less air for the ears.
But the main reason why I refused them is the protrusion inside the cup, when the ear cushion is pressed, it will start to touch the ear, and the headband cannot, for example, be unclenched like in 770/990/880.

In my experience HD560s does not distort with bass EQ, you only need something like +6dB bass boost to get Harman bass down to 20Hz. Also, supported by distortion measurements the HD560s will not distort in the bass, not to a level that is worrisome, in fact they are some of the best headphones in the bass:

That's a distortion measurement by Oratory on one of my HD560s headphones. To me I find the HD560s to be my joint best bass headphone after EQ, on a level playing field with EQ'd planar headphone Hifiman HE4XX.

Along with solderdude, I'd also recommend this headphone to you, although I can see you've tried them already. You mentioned space problems for your ears in the earcup, that's surprising because out of all my headphones they are the ones that have the most space for my ears. They're about the only headphone I own that doesn't touch my ears whilst wearing them.......well my K702 sometimes doesn't touch my ear much if I position them right, but HD560s provides more clearance. For your HD560s, I think you might need to put your ear behind that intrusion you mentioned - I've never really thought about this before as I just position them so I feel slight light touching behind my ear and then I move them back a mm or two so that none of my ear is touching......I would wager that the high point lip of the back of my ear sits behind that intrusion you mentioned.

 

[solderdude]

560S I tried last spring.
It's really bright) But I really liked the scene.

Yep, easily cured.

It also seems to be distorted with a bass equalizer.

Doesn't reflect my experiences but it may depend on what you mean. Perhaps you did not apply any negative pre-amp when boosting the bass.
That would definitely sound distorted on these headphones.

There's a little less air for the ears.

I still don't get what you mean with 'air'. Do you mean heat build-up after a while ?

But the main reason why I refused them is the protrusion inside the cup, when the ear cushion is pressed, it will start to touch the ear, and the headband cannot, for example, be unclenched like in 770/990/880.

Some are bothered by it. Depends on ear size, positioning on the head and how protruding the pinnae are.
The clamping force can be lowered but needs to be done carefully.

The HD598 and HD599 are the same so no option there.

 

[Alchemist_]

I still don't get what you mean with 'air'. Do you mean heat build-up after a while ?

Yes. And yet - The fact is that in some headphones the air is better ventilated in open headphones. Different amount of foam and other acoustic material. Although I may be wrong of course.

Which of the three is less prone to distortion after the bass EQ. 560/612/990?

For reference. I add some bass to the 770 if I listen to music through them. It sounds good, but the can itself is prone to boom (hum).

 

[Dazerdoreal]

For reference. I add some bass to the 770 if I listen to music through them. It sounds good, but the can itself is prone to boom (hum).

The lowest bass frequencies (~30hz) actually are just some kind of "humming". Maybe you just boost the lowest end too much in comparison to the rest?
(How do I make these video links smaller?)

 

[solderdude]

Yes. And yet - The fact is that in some headphones the air is better ventilated in open headphones. Different amount of foam and other acoustic material. Although I may be wrong of course.

you mean less hot on the ears.
None of the 3 have any 'ventilation'.
At Rtings they do some measurements, you could have a look there.

Which of the three is less prone to distortion after the bass EQ. 560/612/990?

I would say from best to least good:
HD560S, DT990, K612

I suspect you might be clipping the signal when doing some bass boost.
You can either play with pre-amp gain or only lower mids and treble (effectively increasing bass)

 

[markanini]

Maybe Beyer DT880 should be part of the discussion too, I know it's mids and highs will require little or no EQ. Philips X2HR measures almost like closed back, but I cant recommend something I haven heard.