Is the entire audio industry a fraud?

[Ricardus]

You engage in ad hominem arguments when the debate is lost.

Not even a little bit. Just pointing out facts. Sorry, your bogus account and your gaslighting doesn't fool me. I grew up with a narcissist in the family.

 

[fpitas]

Not even a little bit. Just pointing out facts. Sorry, your bogus account and your gaslighting doesn't fool me. I grew up with a narcissist in the family.

The whole industry is a fraud. Why not the posters?

 

[Ricardus]

The whole industry is a fraud. Why not the posters?

There is some truth to this!

 

[kemmler3D]

That's really cool. But having a PhD in physics and working with awesome things doesn't make you immune to the placebo effect.

QFT. The entire HEA industry really runs on the tendency of people to believe that placebo effects or other cognitive biases don't apply to them. So in other words, pure arrogance and ignorance. No matter how smart you are, your brain is capable of hearing things that aren't there. That's not a weakness or failure, that's simply the human condition...

 

[ahofer]

Wrong! The rotation of a bucket of Helium 3 which is macroscopic and can be seen with the naked eye follows the "microscopic" quantum rules.

FUD=fear, uncertainty, and doubt. This is what one spreads when one waves their hands about a scientific irrelevance to imply there is some magic in electronic audio signals that we don’t understand, or waxes dogmatic about a simple test that was not controlled for contact quality, level, or experimenter bias. The sort of thing that someone who follows a scientific process, regardless of claimed credentials, simply does not do.

Your posts here do not make you credible.

 

[seanhyatt]

I've been on these forums for quite a while, and while I don't believe everything that is being said here, I'm constantly catching myself believing in the fraud.

Case and point - I spent well over $2000CAD on a Pre-amp (with >$500 on tubes for a Freya+) and a Denafrips Ares II, think that I will have an amazing setup with these two items. I've been listening to them for over a year now and I consider them to be great.

Lo and behold, I decided to buy a SMSL DO200, for around $399 in the last 11.11 sale, and plugged it in. Immediately, I heard a lot worse sound, lack of bass and something's wrong with my speakers. Thinking to myself ah ha! I’ve made the right purchase decisions.

I then realized I had wired the left and rights wrong, so I fixed it and what a surprise, everything returned. More deeper bass (if you see my other thread about lack of bass with my R11's), room shaking response, a sense of excitement that was sorely lacking in the Denafrips and Freya combo, and just a sheer sense of "speed". Drums felt like they hit me with force, whereas in the previous setup they were dulled a bit. Although we are talking 99.9 vs 99.8 difference. The price difference is almost $2500 vs $399.

The more and more I realize, maybe this industry is just a load of fraud? Even using my wife as a test, she likes the SMSL far better (her hearing range is far better than mine actually, she can hear things I cannot, like small high pitched sounds in the music here and there).

TL/DR - basically, I spent $$$ on equipment that did nothing but burn money, all replaced by a $399 DAC that does it all. I'm also using mono LA90's which are amazing as well.

My question is - is the rest of the audio industry just full of it?

Speaking of KEF R11 and fraud.

KEF Direct Blemished Speaker Cabinets

I would just return them and see if you can get them locally from BestBuy or somewhere if you still want them. Big, expensive stuff is just about the only thing I don’t buy online at this point because of the hassle to return. It seems only KEF direct and accessories for less is offering the...

www.audiosciencereview.com

 

[Killingbeans]

I wouldn't call that fraud.

Just bad middel management. I bet the "we really don't want them back"-guy has been reprimanded.

 

[ahofer]

We wonder if it could be possible, but look what is happening in Ivy League social sciences:

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1670088227909431296

More - https://www.thecrimson.com/article/2021/9/1/hbs-research-submitted-for-retraction/

 

[IPunchCholla]

We wonder if it could be possible, but look what is happening in Ivy League social sciences:

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1670088227909431296

Could you screen shot it? I can never get Twitter links to work. Nor do I have an account.

 

[MarkS]

Best to click the link to the original article: http://datacolada.org/109

 

[Newman]

"Two different people independently faked data for two different studies in a paper about dishonesty."

I'm now suffering from irony overload.

 

[Travis]

This thread is full of manufacturer's claims.

The above was a reply to someone who said that manufacturers didn’t seem to be the ones with all the puffery and fpitas was pointing out that there were in fact many such claims quoted in the thread.

I think there is actually a symbiotic relationship between the cable manufacturers and the audio “press.” The audio press reviews things, especially power cords and cables, and confirms the idea they do something beneficial to the sound, the manufacturers say “see I told you.” Of course those links to the reviews, and/or awards go up on the manufacture’s site.

Many have already posted about Shunyata’s claims but I’m not sure if anyone has caught or mentioned this:

DTCD® Analysis is a proprietary measurement technique developed to measure instantaneous current flow through very low impedance electrical conductors and contacts. It is used to optimize the design of electrical parts and materials, ensuring optimal instantaneous current delivery. ‌‌DTCD® Analysis gives Shunyata Research a clear competitive advantage in the design and development of high performance power delivery products.

“Proprietary measurement technique” well there you go. That says it all right there. If that was a valid measurement, what would you expect to see, that doesn’t exist??

What do the engineers and physicists here think about the measurement of “current flow through low impedance” stuff???

 

[Spkrdctr]

The above was a reply to someone who said that manufacturers didn’t seem to be the ones with all the puffery and fpitas was pointing out that there were in fact many such claims quoted in the thread.

I think there is actually a symbiotic relationship between the cable manufacturers and the audio “press.” The audio press reviews things, especially power cords and cables, and confirms the idea they do something beneficial to the sound, the manufacturers say “see I told you.” Of course those links to the reviews, and/or awards go up on the manufacture’s site.

Many have already posted about Shunyata’s claims but I’m not sure if anyone has caught or mentioned this:

DTCD® Analysis is a proprietary measurement technique developed to measure instantaneous current flow through very low impedance electrical conductors and contacts. It is used to optimize the design of electrical parts and materials, ensuring optimal instantaneous current delivery. ‌‌DTCD® Analysis gives Shunyata Research a clear competitive advantage in the design and development of high performance power delivery products.

“Proprietary measurement technique” well there you go. That says it all right there. If that was a valid measurement, what would you expect to see, that doesn’t exist??

What do the engineers and physicists here think about the measurement of “current flow through low impedance” stuff???

It is Shunyata. They specialize is voodoo science and applying the science of one area to another where it does not apply. This is common in audio marketing lies. Say something that is true in one area and then try to say it applies to another. Smoke and mirrors. They are hucksters of the finest order. They always have the fall back position that they make products for the medical field. So what? I have read some of their medical field literature and it has some audio voodoo in it too. But the buyers of medical equipment like getting the best of the best and fall for Shunyatas marketing all the time. This is like saying Amsoil oil is the best on the market and tests out to be the best. So when they come out with a cookie dough for chocolate chip cookies, you know it is the best! Trying to carry over their top of the line product marketing to a cookie dough. It just doesn't apply. Shunyata, scammers of the highest order.

 

[gfinlays]

What do the engineers and physicists here think about the measurement of “current flow through low impedance” stuff???

It's no more difficult than measuring current flow through not so low impedance stuff. It's done in industrial applications day in day out. Low impedance? On a hi-fi power cable?

Try the impedance per metre of a 400 mm² cable. 0.0428 (R) ohms per km, 0.0503 (X) ohms per km, both @ 80 °C.

Shunyata is the worst of the worst where it comes to peddling pseudo-scientific mumbo jumbo based snake-oil.

 

[jmillar]

The more and more I realize, maybe this industry is just a load of fraud?

Not fraud, but a lot of fantasy and loads of magical thinking.

My question is - is the rest of the audio industry just full of it?

Well, there are many audiophiles out there shouting "please take my money!".

Welcome to the world of fact based audio. Your system will sound better and cost less.

 

[RayDunzl]

What do the engineers and physicists here think about the measurement of “current flow through low impedance” stuff???

I only have an Honorory Engineer title on my old business cards nor any physicist qualifications, but here's what I think of current flow at 60Hz through a rectifier on the way to the power supply capacitors, primarily in relation to the DTCD "instantaneous current" test...

Shunyata Factory Tour - and how do THESE claims hold up?

He folks, There is a new video (Absolute Sound) of a Shunyata factory tour: That video itself may not interest too many here, but in discussing this on another forum I was pointing out that, as far as I know, Shunyata has not provided any evidence of their product measurably/audibly...

www.audiosciencereview.com

 

[Killingbeans]

Are you sure about that ? ......

Shun Mook Audio, Inc.

Jim

I see your Shun Mook Audio, and and raise you Shakti Innovations...

Shakti Innovations

Patented EMI Reduction Technology

www.shakti-innovations.com

 

[antcollinet]

Not fraud, but a lot of fantasy and loads of magical thinking.

Plenty of fraud also. Probably not much outright legally actionable fraud. But, morally? Still fraud.

 

[Travis]

I only have an Honorory Engineer title on my old business cards nor any physicist qualifications, but here's what I think of current flow at 60Hz through a rectifier on the way to the power supply capacitors, primarily in relation to the DTCD "instantaneous current" test.

I should have know you guys would have already addressed this. So not surprised at all, thanks for link to other thread.

Where I was going with this is:

1. Proprietary test rig (read secret, unverifiable) - already covered in the other thread you linked;

2. If it was anything that would get beyond smell test that remarkable “breakthrough” in testing and measurements would have been published in a professional publication associated with engineering (IEEE) or audio engineering (AES). If it was a really, really, significant enough, it would become a standard of measurement, dB, ohm, etc. Certainly a medal from one organization or another.

3. It it was really something it would be patented and licensed to B&K or AP.

4. They would compare their power cords to competitor cords (they did compare to a std. black cord, and showed measurements of 3 gauges of std. black cord). Their cord was (something) by 80% and that “by any standard is significant.” But no comparisons to Nordost, etc.

You guys posted their the link to their charts, and pretty much covered where I was going.

DTCD® Technology - Shunyata Research

DTCD® Technology The Shunyata Research DTCD® Analyzer is the first and only power analyzer designed specifically to measure the differences between AC power cables, wires and connections. We interrupt our regularly scheduled analog programming for this important message: Shunyata Research’s...

shunyata.com

I have some more thoughts on that “proprietary test” but will post it in the other thread.

As far as this thread, from a legal perspective, coming up with something that is measurable, and different than a std. power cable is going to make it more difficult to show “fraud” vs. puffery. Not impossible, and not from a moral or philosophical view point, but it gives them an out on fraud depending what their marketing claims are. I thought they also made some boxes that were supposed to provide some sort of surge protection or something? That would be their biggest exposure on fraud.

 

[mhardy6647]

Could you screen shot it? I can never get Twitter links to work. Nor do I have an account.

Usually reloading a post with a twitter link "works" (FWIW).