Is the entire audio industry a fraud?

[Philbo King]

The above was a reply to someone who said that manufacturers didn’t seem to be the ones with all the puffery and fpitas was pointing out that there were in fact many such claims quoted in the thread.

I think there is actually a symbiotic relationship between the cable manufacturers and the audio “press.” The audio press reviews things, especially power cords and cables, and confirms the idea they do something beneficial to the sound, the manufacturers say “see I told you.” Of course those links to the reviews, and/or awards go up on the manufacture’s site.

Many have already posted about Shunyata’s claims but I’m not sure if anyone has caught or mentioned this:

DTCD® Analysis is a proprietary measurement technique developed to measure instantaneous current flow through very low impedance electrical conductors and contacts. It is used to optimize the design of electrical parts and materials, ensuring optimal instantaneous current delivery. ‌‌DTCD® Analysis gives Shunyata Research a clear competitive advantage in the design and development of high performance power delivery products.

“Proprietary measurement technique” well there you go. That says it all right there. If that was a valid measurement, what would you expect to see, that doesn’t exist??

What do the engineers and physicists here think about the measurement of “current flow through low impedance” stuff???

Current probe on a scope, 4 lead milliohmeter, DMM with C & L measurement oughta do it... Maybe an audio freq (so you can do speaker wire too) impedance meter.

There really aren't any 'undiscovered' properties of wire...

 

[Engineria]

If the intention of listening to music at home is to get as close to the source as possible or how the artist intended it. Then don't buy Hi-Fi. Buy studio monitors that are designed for phase accuracy and frequency accuracy, this is what artists and engineers use to master songs on.

In terms of performance and value for money, I've had active studio monitors that are 1/6 the price of a hifi setup that I own (around 2000 USD), and they sound better for critical listening and just in general. Hi-Fi is a waste of money.

 

[Cbdb2]

There are now "hi-fi" speakers that are designed for freq. and phase accuracy. There are other differences. Smaller pro monitors are usually designed for near field, have less dispersion (smaller sweet spot) and don't look as nice. They often do have built in DSP, which you pay extra for in "hi-fi". Large pro monitors are expensive, while good amps are cheap these days.
So there's still reasons for hi-fi. If you listen alone in one spot, don't care about aesthetics and need DSP go pro.
After years of working in front of pro monitors I recently bought some Revel F206s and love the dispersion. Our TV/music room extends in to the kitchen (a 30' room) and they still sound great when Im cooking. And my wife likes the way they look.

 

[Descartes]

If the intention of listening to music at home is to get as close to the source as possible or how the artist intended it. Then don't buy Hi-Fi. Buy studio monitors that are designed for phase accuracy and frequency accuracy, this is what artists and engineers use to master songs on.

In terms of performance and value for money, I've had active studio monitors that are 1/6 the price of a hifi setup that I own (around 2000 USD), and they sound better for critical listening and just in general. Hi-Fi is a waste of money.

It depends on the studio monitors! Some of them are crappy just like hifi speakers.
Genelec the Ones as studio monitors and KEF Reference Meta as an HIFI speaker are both outstanding

 

[Killingbeans]

this is what artists and engineers use to master songs on.

If you're lucky.

That's why we are all knee deep in the infamous "circle of confusion", like it or not.

 

[CleanSound]

If the intention of listening to music at home is to get as close to the source as possible or how the artist intended it. Then don't buy Hi-Fi. Buy studio monitors that are designed for phase accuracy and frequency accuracy, this is what artists and engineers use to master songs on.

In terms of performance and value for money, I've had active studio monitors that are 1/6 the price of a hifi setup that I own (around 2000 USD), and they sound better for critical listening and just in general. Hi-Fi is a waste of money.

Except most studio monitors are designed for reliability and durability, so the electronics used aren't all that high performing. I have a pair of Neumann and there is hissing, albiet not audible at listening distance.

 

[Cbdb2]

Except most studio monitors are designed for reliability and durability, so the electronics used aren't all that high performing.

Do you have proof? Its not hard to have both reliable and high performing electronics.

 

[Deleted member 48726]

Do you have proof? Its not hard to have both reliable and high performing electronics.

Proof of what? -The hiss?

It is unfortunately not uncommon that many active speakers hiss.

 

[CleanSound]

Do you have proof?

Yes, I do.

I own a pair, Neumann KH 120. And many others have reported hissing with their Genelec as well.

 

[Cbdb2]

No, this: "Except most studio monitors are designed for reliability and durability, so the electronics used aren't all that high performing."

 

[CarbonMakerU]

No, this: "Except most studio monitors are designed for reliability and durability, so the electronics used aren't all that high performing."

I will first say I have zero idea when it comes to speaker design so your contention may be very well correct, but I can think of a lot of applications where the specific product is built to be as reliable as possible first, not first across the finish line.

 

[Hayabusa]

Yes, I do.

I own a pair, Neumann KH 120. And many others have reported hissing with their Genelec as well.

Hiss at what distance?

 

[CapMan]

After years of working in front of pro monitors I recently bought some Revel F206s and love the dispersion.

Very happy with mine also for similar reasons

 

[Holmz]

If you're lucky.

That's why we are all knee deep in the infamous "circle of confusion", like it or not.

 

[CleanSound]

Hiss at what distance?

4-6 inches is audible. Once you increase gain, 1 foot is audible.

 

[Pearljam5000]

I'd say not a fraud at all
You can buy a Toyota Corolla or buy a luxury car that costs x10 times more , and offers maybe 5% more.
It all depends on how much $$$ you have

 

[Deleted member 21219]

I'd say not a fraud at all
You can buy a Toyota Corolla or buy a luxury car that costs x10 times more , and offers maybe 5% more.
It all depends on how much $$$ you have

The product itself is not the "fraud" under discussion here. It's the deceptive business practices standing between the buyer and those products in audio. Where I live, there are consumer protection laws that apply to auto sales.

If those same consumer protection laws apply to audio products, I'm not aware of it.

Jim

 

[CleanSound]

No, this: "Except most studio monitors are designed for reliability and durability, so the electronics used aren't all that high performing."

A lot of pro audio equipment will publish MTBF, many studio monitor, if not all, don't use MDF or HDF for the cabinet, I believe Genelec uses aluminum, while others uses some form of hard/durable plastic. This is for durability reasons as many times these studio monitors gets transported to job sites. Another example is that my Neumann has 1.5 hours of inactivity before it goes on standby mode. 1.5 hours a day adds up, but it's designed for it.

In terms of performance, perhaps I need to specify, the speaker design performs superbly, but the electronics aren't stellar, though durable and reliable, you can see that in pro audio specs on amps. And even with active monitors, they will specify self generated noise; there is a thread here somewhere where someone measured the hissing, none of them come close to the Kii 3.

Pro audio is designed for daily, extended period use and abuse.

EDIT: To be clear, I like my Neumann, and I am very happy with the purchase. And while there is hissing, it's inaudible from listening distance.

 

[JustJones]

The product itself is not the "fraud" under discussion here. It's the deceptive business practices standing between the buyer and those products in audio. Where I live, there are consumer protection laws that apply to auto sales.

If those same consumer protection laws apply to audio products, I'm not aware of it.

Jim

In my state here's pertinent section from the Office of consumer protection.

citizens from "unfair, false, misleading, or deceptive acts or practices in trade or commerce." The Office of Consumer Protection enforces the Act by bringing lawsuits in the public interest to obtain civil penalties and consumer redress, including restitution and injunctive relief aimed at changing bad business practices.

The problem with bringing action against questionable "audio products" is the language they use in promoting their wares. They're very astute in understanding how to advertise. In other words they don't really make concrete claims, they use a lot of "testimonials " from very satisfied customers and usually offer returns if not satisfied. What I might consider " unfair, false,misleading or deceptive" consumers of these products consider their purchase "fair, true and accurate". After all they hear it with their own ears. One of the few cases actually brought was the MoFi scandal which was settled pretty quick.

 

[Hayabusa]

4-6 inches is audible. Once you increase gain, 1 foot is audible.

Indeed this confirms the specs of 20dB at 10cm of Neumann.
But this means inaudible at 1 meter / 40 inch.
Will you ever listen closer than 1 meter?
So I guess this is not so bad and this hiss is not a real-live issue.