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Incredible micro DACs

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Rednaxela

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Anyway, the purpose of my original post wasn't so much about precise measurements as it was to highlight what modern nanoelectronics can achieve.
Appreciate this. And agree - it's amazing to realize there's a DAC at all in just the plug.

However, if you don't want to provide further insights, maybe also leave the theorizing on DAC chips (identifiable by ear?), sample rates and bit depths at the door? I get that sometimes it is nice to share a subjective impression without feeling the need to back up everything with data. But let's just keep it at that then, and say: I don't know why they sound so good to me - could just as well be my imagination.

With all respect and no offense at all.
 
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However, if you don't want to provide further insights, maybe also leave the theorizing on DAC chips (identifiable by ear?), sample rates and bit depths at the door? I get that sometimes it is nice to share a subjective impression without feeling the need to back up everything with data. But let's just keep it at that then, and say: I don't know why they sound so good to me - could just as well be my imagination.

With all respect and no offense at all.
Forgive me, I see many open threads on headphone amplifiers, headphone DACs and headphones themselves based on simple subjective listening impressions and practically never accompanied by the data declared by the chipset manufacturer (which I instead reported).
I'm guessing you're about to repeat this post for each of the dozens of threads in question, right?
 
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After careful consideration, I fear I am out of place on this Forum.
My impression is that only praising objects costing thousands of dollars is applauded, while saying that an object that costs only 20 dollars is seen almost as an affront.
Reason why I will ask the administrator to delete my account.
Thanks and sorry for the noise.
 

voodooless

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I'm guessing you're about to repeat this post for each of the dozens of threads in question, right?
Yes, that is generally what happens.
My impression is that only praising objects costing thousands of dollars is applauded, while saying that an object that costs only 20 dollars is seen almost as an affront.
That is complete nonsense. The $10 Apple dongle got a good review, as did many affordable products. Probably many more than you’ll find anywhere else.

The issue here is not the paraising of a product. The issue is that there is nothing yet to praise it for. We have no objective data, only your word for it. That is just not good enough. We also have people praising a $1000 power cable or audiophile fuse as the best thing since sliced bread, while we know that is total nonsense and does absolutely nothing. It’s nothing personal, I wouldn’t trust my own word either ;)

Now, nobody is saying this thing can’t or won’t sound excellent… we just don’t have the data to conclude this.
 

Talisman

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After careful consideration, I fear I am out of place on this Forum.
My impression is that only praising objects costing thousands of dollars is applauded, while saying that an object that costs only 20 dollars is seen almost as an affront.
Reason why I will ask the administrator to delete my account.
Thanks and sorry for the noise.
You couldn't be further from the truth, it's actually quite the opposite.
What you are challenged with is associating your ears with the ability to even discern between the types of chips used.
Please don't walk away or get defensive.
The most important difference you will notice in these small smartphone DACs is in the ability to drive your headphones by extrapolating as much energy as possible from the phone, much more than the pure decoding performance (which will most likely be transparent or very close to transparency).
 

ahofer

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ahofer

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Forgive me, I see many open threads on headphone amplifiers, headphone DACs and headphones themselves based on simple subjective listening impressions and practically never accompanied by the data declared by the chipset manufacturer (which I instead reported).
I'm guessing you're about to repeat this post for each of the dozens of threads in question, right?
Wait, you what? You didn't look around, did you?

All these reviews have measurements: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?reviews/

Some of them don’t have listening tests.
 
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DSJR

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My ears say that the biggest difference is made by 24 bits, even a modest 24/48 has a superior performance to a simple 16/44 CD quality.
However they reach 32/384, but I don't have a track suitable for the test.
I'd suggest only when your eyes are engaged and you know which is which.. Human hearing is absolutely crap, only felt to be better than best by audiophiles I reckon ;)

CD red book when not 'mastered' to within an inch of its life and played into a non-doctored dac, is pretty much identical sonically to the master file if the comparison is level matched.

P.S. before the convenience of lo-fi bluetooth in my life, I used an Apple dac-dongle daily (it's still connected and used occasionally) and the only *subjective* criticism I could make of it is of too low an output (in both forms) when used purely as a dac, it 'sounds' fine otherwise.
 
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You couldn't be further from the truth, it's actually quite the opposite.
What you are challenged with is associating your ears with the ability to even discern between the types of chips used.
Please don't walk away or get defensive.
The most important difference you will notice in these small smartphone DACs is in the ability to drive your headphones by extrapolating as much energy as possible from the phone, much more than the pure decoding performance (which will most likely be transparent or very close to transparency).
I mentioned the chipset used since the first post, and subsequently gave the complete characteristics declared by Cirrus for this DAC, which are objectively remarkable.
Result: many answers that declared my judgment unreliable.
If I had opened the same thread talking about a Hi-End stereo (a system which I also own, and probably of a much higher level than that owned by the majority of those who replied to me. Just as are professional all the measuring instruments present in my laboratory), then my judgment would suddenly become worthy of consideration.
It's not a place for me, I've already sent the cancellation request to Amir.

Greetings to all and good continuation.
 
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No other answer from me.

Regards
 

voodooless

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If I had opened the same thread talking about a Hi-End stereo (a system which I also own, and probably of a much higher level than that owned by the majority of those who replied to me. Just as are professional all the measuring instruments present in my laboratory), then my judgment would suddenly become worthy of consideration.
As I and other already said, you are totally mistaken. Why would the judgement be different because you own XYZ? It’s subjective, no matter what you own or who you are. In general we really don’t care what something costs either. Objective performance is what matters. Many very high priced products were thoroughly thrashed because of bad performance, while elsewhere they were praised for their apparent fantastic performance.

subsequently gave the complete characteristics declared by Cirrus for this DAC, which are objectively remarkable.
No, you didn’t. You just copied the data that the Chinese produced pages show. The actual but limited Cirrus documentation shows different figures for the chip. Who is right, I don’t know? But in general I find these Chinese product pages to be lacking in detail and accuracy. In this particular case for instance, it mentions DSB instead of DSD. Whatever else might be wrong, who knows? If the Cirrus document is still current, I also don’t know. It’s basically the only official source of information about the chip that I could find at this point in time. Time will tell…

What I do know is that I don’t expect any miracle performance, other than maybe that it is able to drive some headphone a bit harder than other solutions. Which admittedly can be a huge plus.
 
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ahofer

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I
I mentioned the chipset used since the first post, and subsequently gave the complete characteristics declared by Cirrus for this DAC, which are objectively remarkable.
...then you claimed you could tell 24 bit from 16 bit and made a bunch of obviously false assertions.
 
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It's almost as if he were simultaneously reading and posting on two (or more) sites .... here and another, more common subjectivist site ..... and got his locations reversed.
I agree, it's unfortunate.

Jim
 

IAtaman

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After careful consideration, I fear I am out of place on this Forum.
My impression is that only praising objects costing thousands of dollars is applauded, while saying that an object that costs only 20 dollars is seen almost as an affront.
Reason why I will ask the administrator to delete my account.
Thanks and sorry for the noise.
You join a SINAD cult funded by Topping to discredit expensive gear, and people still accuse you of only liking pricey products..
 
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