in-ceiling speaker recommendation for large space

[TXavGuy]

I am looking for in-ceiling speakers for a pretty large space -- about 35' long and 25' wide with variable ceiling height of 20'-24'. This is exclusively for music and TV -- no home theater use. There is no specific MLP. While I want the music to "sound good" and be able to really fill the room (like for parties, and I like to listen loud) this is not for serious listening. I am also trying to minimize the "overhead speaker" effect as much as possible.

I've heard lots of opinions from folks, but all are either biased for a particular solution or unfamiliar with all of the options so not in a position to offer an informed suggestion. That's where you all come in! I currently have 3 leading contenders, any of which could be paired with one or more subwoofers, but I am open to other suggestions, too. I'd need multiples pairs of any of these for my space.

1. KEF Ci200R -- seems it may be appropriate because of the dispersion offered by the coaxial design
2. Revel C783 -- uses an offset tweeter with waveguide and Revel claims it "reduces acoustic anomalies that occur with traditional coaxial...designs"
3. James Loudspeaker SA853Q -- it's hard to find info on any James product, but these use a quad array dome tweeter to minimize directionality

Ignoring cost and aesthetics, which of these do you think would provide the best experience? Or do you have another suggestion?

p.s. if anyone wants to advocate for towers at one end of the room, go for it, but I don't think that is going to provide a good experience throughout the space

 

[Flaesh]

EAW CP621; at least they look funny and can play loud

 

[sweetchaos]

For in-ceiling, I would only be looking at Kef, due to their coaxial design.

Architectural Series Brochure

https://us.kef.com/pub/media/documents/ciseries/Ci_pamphlet_TX_US_20170620_for_web.pdf

Scroll down to 2nd page.

For home theater use (aka reference level of movie playback), I would be looking at their R-series in-ceiling.
For general background music use, I would be looking at their Q-series in-ceiling.

 

[Matthias McCready]

These sound phenomenal, not something I would have expected out of a ceiling speaker... They are not cheap though.

 

[Flaesh]

if anyone wants to advocate

Yes, I want. My room is 30'*14'*10', 2 normal stereo speakers and double bass array; IMHO frontal sound is much more acceptable than "sound from above".
Small clubs\halls may have acceptable sound.
You can use line arrays such as JBL CBT instead of point sources to reduce the difference between the front and back zones.

 

[TXavGuy]

EAW CP621; at least they look funny and can play loud

Interesting, but those are 24" square, so won't be quite as subtle in appearance as I am looking for. It does look like an interesting option for the right application, though!

 

[TXavGuy]

For in-ceiling, I would only be looking at Kef, due to their coaxial design.

Architectural Series Brochure

https://us.kef.com/pub/media/documents/ciseries/Ci_pamphlet_TX_US_20170620_for_web.pdf

Scroll down to 2nd page.

For home theater use (aka reference level of movie playback), I would be looking at their R-series in-ceiling.
For general background music use, I would be looking at their Q-series in-ceiling.

Thanks for this input. Coaxial is why it made my short list. I wish there was a good way to A/B them with the James Loudspeaker option. I was able to hear the James offering, but sitting on a table, not in-ceiling. They sounded very good to my ears, but they are a lot to deal with -- they require bi-amping and practically speaking, DSP. And they're not cheap…like $3500 per, and I’d need 6 (maybe 8) and AFAIK that doesn’t include the amplification. I thought it was sort of sketchy to call an 8” woofer a sub, but whatever they’re doing with the enclosure did produce a fairly impressive result. It certainly wasn’t overwhelming LFE-type bass, but it compared favorably to much larger towers I've heard (in different rooms, on different days, so I know any comparison is sketchy). I found that there was almost no directionality to the sound. They attributed this to the tweeter, which disperses sound in 4 different directions. Whatever it is, it seemed to work. The sound was very uniform no matter where I moved in the room. They also did a demo where they rotated the speaker 90 degrees, and there was very little difference in sound while they did so.

 

[TXavGuy]

These sound phenomenal, not something I would have expected out of a ceiling speaker... They are not cheap though.

Hadn't heard of those -- I will definitely research them. Thanks for the lead!

 

[TXavGuy]

Yes, I want. My room is 30'*14'*10', 2 normal stereo speakers and double bass array; IMHO frontal sound is much more acceptable than "sound from above".
Small clubs\halls may have acceptable sound.
You can use line arrays such as JBL CBT instead of point sources to reduce the difference between the front and back zones.

I sincerely appreciate your evangelism I 100% agree I'd rather have frontal sound. Unfortunately, due to aesthetic concerns, line arrays aren't really an option.

How is your room configured? In my case, the speakers would be sitting on the 25' wall, and a significant amount of the listening -- in fact, likely the majority -- would be done about 30' away.

 

[Matthias McCready]

Hadn't heard of those -- I will definitely research them. Thanks for the lead!

Also... they have quite a bit of low-end for their size, and being Meyer that have a LOT of output.

My typical experience with Meyer Sound products is that they can plaster me against the wall, or floor in this case, and sound great while doing it.

 

[Flaesh]

How is your room configured?

Double bass array. Low Q subs. [Quasi]plain wave radiation?

Hi there! Briefly: Here is the room 14'W*30'L*10H. Speakers not shown as their location may vary. Subs (2F+2R) placed as expected at half of room height. Here is measured LF response approximately at "sweet spot". As always (unless otherwise specified) no smooting, without eq\correction, with...

www.audiosciencereview.com

Usually the speakers are in the front corners, 45º toed in. 15" midbass and 24" waveguide. It can play loud.
I would have preferred a width greater than 14', but this is what I have

 

[TXavGuy]

T

Double bass array. Low Q subs. [Quasi]plain wave radiation?

Hi there! Briefly: Here is the room 14'W*30'L*10H. Speakers not shown as their location may vary. Subs (2F+2R) placed as expected at half of room height. Here is measured LF response approximately at "sweet spot". As always (unless otherwise specified) no smooting, without eq\correction, with...

www.audiosciencereview.com

Usually the speakers are in the front corners, 45º toed in. 15" midbass and 24" waveguide. It can play loud.
I would have preferred a width greater than 14', but this is what I have

Thanks. My speakers would ed up about 13' apart, centered on the 25' wall.

 

[NiagaraPete]

What about something like this
https://www.genelec.com/aiw26b

 

[TXavGuy]

What about something like this
https://www.genelec.com/aiw26b

That is huge, and seems like it would be an eyesore on the ceiling -- it's about 22"x12". Would it provide benefits over the much more discrete options I listed?

 

[NiagaraPete]

That is huge, and seems like it would be an eyesore on the ceiling -- it's about 22"x12". Would it provide benefits over the much more discrete options I listed?

If you want something that sounds good, it's an option. They also have a in wall sub.

 

[TXavGuy]

If you want something that sounds good, it's an option. They also have a in wall sub.

Is that to imply that the options I mentioned won't sound good?

 

[Flaesh]

about 13' apart, centered on the 25' wall

Frontal or ceiling? For frontal wide horizontal directivity is desirable in this case.
Subs in Wiener Neustadt for inspiration:

like this

I doubt they will play loud in 35' long and 25' wide with variable ceiling height of 20'-24' room.

 

[TXavGuy]

Frontal or ceiling? For frontal wide horizontal directivity is desirable in this case.
Subs in Wiener Neustadt for inspiration:

I doubt they will play loud in 35' long and 25' wide with variable ceiling height of 20'-24' room.

The spacing I mentioned would be if I used towers. And I share the concern about playing loudly and being intelligible at the far points in the room, which is why the in-ceiling approach seems to be the least-bad option.

 

[NiagaraPete]

Is that to imply that the options I mentioned won't sound good?

No probably not. Personally I think ceiling mount is a horrid idea. In wall will work muck better.
The advantage of the Genelec would be that the amps are built in and likely decades of use.

 

[TXavGuy]

No probably not. Personally I think ceiling mount is a horrid idea. In wall will work muck better.
The advantage of the Genelec would be that the amps are built in and likely decades of use.

In-wall is not an option -- unfortunately, I need to work within the constraints I have. So it's either an array of in-ceiling speakers or 2 towers positioned as mentioned earlier.