ifi Zen DAC and Headphone Amp Review

[Sukie]

I would say that not all Head-Fi threads are like what you said. I'm currently watching the Q5s thread and when one member mentioned ASR review of the Fiio Q5s and hope that Fiio looked into the matter, I find that members were concerned. I didn't find any mockery and whenever the matter was raised time and time again, I would say most were civil about it. Anyway, suppose Head-Fi is indeed against ASR and making fun of us, why should we follow such behaviour? I mean, we're in the "science" side should be better than that, right?

@raistlin65's points were not making fun of Head-fi, they were legitimately critiquing a model that puts advertising revenue before criticism. No advertiser is going to sponsor a forum in which their products get slated, even if this slating is completely justified in terms of measurable data.

Having said that, there's nothing wrong with a bit of gentle mockery. Sometimes humour can get to the heart of the matter very quickly.

 

[raistlin65]

I would say that not all Head-Fi threads are like what you said. I'm currently watching the Q5s thread and when one member mentioned ASR review of the Fiio Q5s and hope that Fiio looked into the matter, I find that members were concerned. I didn't find any mockery and whenever the matter was raised time and time again, I would say most were civil about it. Anyway, suppose Head-Fi is indeed against ASR and making fun of us, why should we follow such behaviour? I mean, we're in the "science" side should be better than that, right?

I didn't say it was all threads. Or every member. My main criticism was of the institution of Head-Fi and what it promotes. It is fair to criticize that forum for the blatant science censorship, which promotes anti-science attitudes and perpetuates some of the subjectivist nonsense. Not only on Head-Fi, but across the internet because of Head-Fi influence.

That being said, try linking to a review on ASR. I did that a couple of years ago. The link was removed and the head moderator told me it was not allowed.

 

[raif71]

@raistlin65's points were not making fun of Head-fi, they were legitimately critiquing a model that puts advertising revenue before criticism. No advertiser is going to sponsor a forum in which their products get slated, even if this slating is completely justified in terms of measurable data.

Having said that, there's nothing wrong with a bit of gentle mockery. Sometimes humour can get to the heart of the matter very quickly.

I didn't say it was all threads. Or every member. My main criticism was of the institution of Head-Fi and what it promotes. It is fair to criticize that forum for the blatant science censorship, which promotes anti-science attitudes and perpetuates some of the subjectivist nonsense. Not only on Head-Fi, but across the internet because of Head-Fi influence.

That being said, try linking to a review on ASR. I did that a couple of years ago. The link was removed and the head moderator told me it was not allowed.

Noted with thanks. Sometimes I overthink things.

 

[raistlin65]

Noted with thanks. Sometimes I overthink things.

It's understandable. Many of us participated on Head-Fi for many years. I still do to a certain extent. We've been there through it all.

We have seen much of how Head-Fi policy is a detriment to the audio community. For example, it's a mouthpiece for Jason Stoddard of Schiit Audio. https://www.head-fi.org/threads/sch...f-the-worlds-most-improbable-start-up.701900/.

This is not to say that Schiit does not make some good products. They do. But they also have expensive products which are solutions to problems that don't exist in audio, and Head-Fi has been a major contributor in promoting that. They let Stoddard promote misleading concepts to sell his products, such as blind listening: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...chiits-jason-stoddard-on-blind-testing.11716/

And speaking of Schiit, nwavguy was banned for arguing about an issue with the Schiit Asgard 1 that he discovered which could literally destroy headphones. You cannot mention him, nor link to his posts like this one: http://nwavguy.blogspot.com/2012/04/what-we-hear.html. And he was a major force in the audio community for making people more aware of outlandish claims of audio manufacturers and what really matters in audio equipment selection.

 

[Hemi-Demon]

It's understandable. Many of us participated on Head-Fi for many years. I still do to a certain extent. We've been there through it all.

We have seen much of how Head-Fi policy is a detriment to the audio community. For example, it's a mouthpiece for Jason Stoddard of Schiit Audio. https://www.head-fi.org/threads/sch...f-the-worlds-most-improbable-start-up.701900/.

This is not to say that Schiit does not make some good products. They do. But they also have expensive products which are solutions to problems that don't exist in audio, and Head-Fi has been a major contributor in promoting that. They let Stoddard promote misleading concepts to sell his products, such as blind listening: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...chiits-jason-stoddard-on-blind-testing.11716/

And speaking of Schiit, nwavguy was banned for arguing about an issue with the Schiit Asgard 1 that he discovered which could literally destroy headphones. You cannot mention him, nor link to his posts like this one: http://nwavguy.blogspot.com/2012/04/what-we-hear.html. And he was a major force in the audio community for making people more aware of outlandish claims of audio manufacturers and what really matters in audio equipment selection.

They also banned Amir, for arguing over a Schiit revew even though the reviews showed the SAME artifacts and design errors . That place is the biggest headphone forum and they are making a killing in forced sponsorship. They literally will delete entire threads and posts if you bring to light their pay scale, their bias or go against the mods. It's a cool forum, but they too have a bias like any other forum.

 

[raistlin65]

They also banned Amir, for arguing over a Schiit revew even though the reviews showed the SAME artifacts and design errors . That place is the biggest headphone forum and they are making a killing in forced sponsorship. They literally will delete entire threads and posts if you bring to light their pay scale, their bias or go against the mods. It's a cool forum, but they too have a bias like any other forum.

I didn't realize Amir was banned. Although I can certainly see him rubbing Jude and his moderators the wrong way. Amir doesn't hold back. lol

 

[makatech]

I think some has to do with being humble too, if you completely miss this ability life may become a bit harder on you.

We are discussing sound but people throwing their own truths all over the place, never ending "jokes" about head-fi, jokes or marking words when people writing "warm", "smooth", whatever. I guess I prefer forums with a slightly more friendly attitude.

I wouldn't say I'm a sensitive person usually but some attitudes here are over my limit it seems, I get s f*****g upset I want to hit somebody. When this happens it's time moving on. Haha :-D Take care.

About Amir and his reviews, I love them in general, this is not about him.

 

[Jimbob54]

I think some has to do with being humble too, if you completely miss this ability life may become a bit harder on you.

We are discussing sound but people throwing their own truths all over the place, never ending "jokes" about head-fi, jokes or marking words when people writing "warm", "smooth", whatever. I guess I prefer forums with a slightly more friendly attitude.

I wouldn't say I'm a sensitive person usually but some attitudes here are over my limit it seems, I get s f*****g upset I want to hit somebody. When this happens it's time moving on. Haha :-D Take care.

About Amir and his reviews, I love them in general, this is not about him.

A man that gets "xxxxxxx upset" about a post on the Internet addressed to someone else, then tell the world how "xxxxxxx upset" it made them definitely needs to back away.

 

[Sukie]

A man that gets "xxxxxxx upset" about a post on the Internet addressed to someone else, then tell the world how it "xxxxxxx upset" it made them definitely needs to back away.

The UK has just been put back into a 4 week lock down. Many people will face financial, emotional and psychological challenges over the next month. This upsets me (no judgement on the rights or the wrongs of this, just concern for all involved, including our political leaders).

Posts on the internet concerning descriptions of audio properties? Rather less upset about that.

You just can't make it up!!!

 

[odyo]

Since it has no thread i will put it here. Zen Can or maybe my balanced 4.4 cable have weird problem. It's a clean amp with rca connection but balanced connection have ground loop issue. It's only audible at high gains but odd since rca is clean. It also leaks the sound to other inputs. While having 4.4mm balanced connection i can get sound from rca and 3.5mm input(lower volume) as well. It's not the case with RCA connection. If i use both RCA and 4.4 balanced cable both at the same time ground loop issue gone.

Anyone have any idea why ? Bad design ? Defect ? Bad cable ?

 

[raif71]

Since it has no thread i will put it here. Zen Can or maybe my balanced 4.4 cable have weird problem. It's a clean amp with rca connection but balanced connection have ground loop issue. It's only audible at high gains but odd since rca is clean. It also leaks the sound to other inputs. While having 4.4mm balanced connection i can get sound from rca and 3.5mm input(lower volume) as well. It's not the case with RCA connection. If i use both RCA and 4.4 balanced cable both at the same time ground loop issue gone.

Anyone have any idea why ? Bad design ? Defect ? Bad cable ?

Currently my usage is HibyR5-->Topping D10s(usb)-->Zen Can(rca) but I've also connected like so HibyR5-->Zen Can(pentaconn). So far I've never heard the ground loop issue. Is it because I did not use PC/laptop?

 

[odyo]

Currently my usage is HibyR5-->Topping D10s(usb)-->Zen Can(rca) but I've also connected like so HibyR5-->Zen Can(pentaconn). So far I've never heard the ground loop issue. Is it because I did not use PC/laptop?

Maybe. I'm using W10 and Zen Dac. Is your headphone sensitive and did you increase the gain and volume ? Can you also hear the music when you switch input to rca or 3.5 while only having 4.4 connection ?

 

[raif71]

Maybe. I'm using W10 and Zen Dac. Is your headphone sensitive and did you increase the gain and volume ? Can you also hear the music when you switch input to rca or 3.5 while only having 4.4 connection ?

I'm only connecting rca or pentaconn one at a time coz my player HibyR5 is involved in both connections but I can use the mojo to connect to the 3.5mm. Currently with this Zen Can, I'm using Sundara. I suppose if what you say is true then the use case for the Zen Can is to only connect one input at a time to avoid leaks from other inputs if I understand the problem you explained.

 

[odyo]

I'm only connecting rca or pentaconn one at a time coz my player HibyR5 is involved in both connections but I can use the mojo to connect to the 3.5mm. Currently with this Zen Can, I'm using Sundara. I suppose if what you say is true then the use case for the Zen Can is to only connect one input at a time to avoid leaks from other inputs if I understand the problem you explained.

Actually using multiple inputs makes it cleaner. Problem happens when it's only connected with 4.4mm balanced cable. If i change the input with the button (1: rca, 2: 3.5mm 3: 4.4bal) i can still hear the music but i shouldn't since i'm using only bal cable.

So there are 2 problems.
1- Ground loop with balanced cable which shouldn't happen because it's balanced. RCA is completely clean.
2- Sound leak to the other input modes. Amp switched to RCA input mode while having no RCA cable connected(only 4.4 connected) i can still hear the faint music.

 

[raif71]

Actually using multiple inputs makes it cleaner. Problem happens when it's only connected with 4.4mm balanced cable. If i change the input with the button (1: rca, 2: 3.5mm 3: 4.4bal) i can still hear the music but i shouldn't since i'm using only bal cable.

So there are 2 problems.
1- Ground loop with balanced cable which shouldn't happen because it's balanced. RCA is completely clean.
2- Sound leak to the other input modes. Amp switched to RCA input mode while having no RCA cable connected(only 4.4 connected) i can still hear the faint music.

When I'm using the balanced input of the Zen Can and no other input is connected, changing the input button to select the other inputs, I was not able to hear any leakage of music from balanced on the other two inputs. All is quiet even if I max the volume. I tried this on the 0db and 6db gain.

 

[odyo]

When I'm using the balanced input of the Zen Can and no other input is connected, changing the input button to select the other inputs, I was not able to hear any leakage of music from balanced on the other two inputs. All is quiet even if I max the volume. I tried this on the 0db and 6db gain.

It looks like defect. They probably send me returned product. I noticed it while unboxing. Amazon always does this. I can hear it at 0db gain 12 o'clock knob position with RCA input mode, it's louder in 3.5mm input mode and audible at 9 o'clock. It's very faint and my headphone is quite sensitive but still sound shouldn't leak from balanced input to other inputs.

Ground loop... I've tried the amp without any connection, just powered it with included ipower adapter and it has ground loop issue. Ground loop noise is gone if i touch the case of the product. RCA cable fixes it, it acts like i'm touching the casing of the amp. 4.4 pentacon balanced doesn't fix it so that's why it has ground loop issue with only balanced cable connected.

I really like the amp. I find the xbass feature really useful. It's far better than Zen Dac's bass boost and acts more like a correction instead of coloration for open backs. Placebo or not sound of the amps is very good. Power is very good as well. I feel like it's designed for higher impedance headphones in mind though.

 

[Veri]

It looks like defect. They probably send me returned product. I noticed it while unboxing. Amazon always does this. I can hear it at 0db gain 12 o'clock knob position with RCA input mode, it's louder in 3.5mm input mode and audible at 9 o'clock. It's very faint and my headphone is quite sensitive but still sound shouldn't leak from balanced input to other inputs.

Ground loop... I've tried the amp without any connection, just powered it with included ipower adapter and it has ground loop issue. Ground loop noise is gone if i touch the case of the product. RCA cable fixes it, it acts like i'm touching the casing of the amp. 4.4 pentacon balanced doesn't fix it so that's why it has ground loop issue with only balanced cable connected.

I really like the amp. I find the xbass feature really useful. It's far better than Zen Dac's bass boost and acts more like a correction instead of coloration for open backs. Placebo or not sound of the amps is very good. Power is very good as well. I feel like it's designed for higher impedance headphones in mind though.

If the 4.4mm gives grounding noise, I'm thinking it's making only L+ L- R+ R- connection. That would mean either the cable you're using OR the iFi itself is not making optimal use of the 4.4mm connection standard, it's effectually no better than 2.5mm in this situation. If it's the iFi, that's flawed implementation.

 

[odyo]

If the 4.4mm gives grounding noise, I'm thinking it's making only L+ L- R+ R- connection. That would mean either the cable you're using OR the iFi itself is not making optimal use of the 4.4mm connection standard, it's effectually no better than 2.5mm in this situation. If it's the iFi, that's flawed implementation.

You mean headphone cable ? I should try it with 3.5 SE cable to see if it has ground loop noise.

 

[raif71]

If the 4.4mm gives grounding noise, I'm thinking it's making only L+ L- R+ R- connection. That would mean either the cable you're using OR the iFi itself is not making optimal use of the 4.4mm connection standard, it's effectually no better than 2.5mm in this situation. If it's the iFi, that's flawed implementation.

You mean headphone cable ? I should try it with 3.5 SE cable to see if it has ground loop noise.

So, this ground loop noise, it is demonstrable if I were to use PC/laptop right? My playing/transport source is always a DAP. If this is the case, then ground loop noise shouldn't be an issue for me?

 

[odyo]

So, this ground loop noise, it is demonstrable if I were to use PC/laptop right? My playing/transport source is always a DAP. If this is the case, then ground loop noise shouldn't be an issue for me?

In my case you dont need any source. Just power up your amp and connect the headphone wthout any dac or dap. Play with the gain and knob. Make sure you are not touching to the casing of the amp.