ifi Zen DAC and Headphone Amp Review

[raistlin65]

Yes, it does. If the measure of a "better" dac is one that introduces the least amount of distortion and other artifacts. That's pretty much the objective view, isn't it?

And that headphone analogy is bogus. A headphone that measures better in terms of the core criteria of headphones (fr, comfort and distortion) is, objectively, better. No?

Plus, when someone claims a headphone supports 5hz-50khz, we know they're getting that off the manufacturer specs that were written by the marketing team, and it's ridiculously unreliable information. lol

 

[BDWoody]

Measuring better doesn't make it ''better''. It's like saying ''this headphone supports 5hz-50khz so it should be better than 5hz-30khz headphone''

It's really not like that at all.

 

[BDWoody]

I might be imagining things so take this with grain of salt

Pretty good bet.

 

[raif71]

Imho at the end of the day, only the user can say which dac/amp he or she prefers. One dac or amp or combo may have higher measurements but the user might prefer the lesser measurements. Who cares, right? For me, after all the ABing , level matching, sorry no blind testing I might enjoy both setups. Take L30 and Ifi Zen Can, I enjoy both but I have to give that slight edge to the Can even though it has not been measured because in my palette, power is important. To me it's always more and more headroom....I can't stand one amp's volume dial at 3 oclock when say another amp is at 12 o'clock level matched. I will choose the amp that delivers the right amount of sound at 12 o'clock but again that is just me. Again that is just headroom, there will be other user's own criteria such as warmness, musicality, sharpness, harshness to sound which some here may , but to me they are real and I might add they are real to other users too. Again I understand these are subjective matters and I shouldn't say more than this here but once in awhile some may express his/her subjective opinions and when this happens, I hope that people here will be more understanding. I understand it's a tall order but one can hope, right?

 

[Jimbob54]

Imho at the end of the day, only the user can say which dac/amp he or she prefers. One dac or amp or combo may have higher measurements but the user might prefer the lesser measurements. Who cares, right? For me, after all the ABing , level matching, sorry no blind testing I might enjoy both setups. Take L30 and Ifi Zen Can, I enjoy both but I have to give that slight edge to the Can even though it has not been measured because in my palette, power is important. To me it's always more and more headroom....I can't stand one amp's volume dial at 3 oclock when say another amp is at 12 o'clock level matched. I will choose the amp that delivers the right amount of sound at 12 o'clock but again that is just me. Again that is just headroom, there will be other user's own criteria such as warmness, musicality, sharpness, harshness to sound which some here may , but to me they are real and I might add they are real to other users too. Again I understand these are subjective matters and I shouldn't say more than this here but once in awhile some may express his/her subjective opinions and when this happens, I hope that people here will be more understanding. I understand it's a tall order but one can hope, right?

What many fail to realise is that any of our perceptions about how we think a device "sounds" is about as relevant to other users here as our opinion on the colour of the device.

 

[raif71]

What many fail to realise is that any of our perceptions about how we think a device "sounds" is about as relevant to other users here as our opinion on the colour of the device.

Yeah, we understand that when users expressed his/her subjective views it is only the user's experience and it shouldn't be regarded as anything else. Of course sharing is caring

 

[raistlin65]

To me it's always more and more headroom....I can't stand one amp's volume dial at 3 oclock when say another amp is at 12 o'clock level matched. I will choose the amp that delivers the right amount of sound at 12 o'clock but again that is just me. Again that is just headroom, there...

Do know that the position that you are describing is not meaningful for comparing two amps. Given the different gain stage setups on amps, and different potentiometers, it's fairly meaningless to try to compare those.

But if excess headroom is all that matters to you, get an Emotiva A100, install the secret jumpers, and be done with it

 

[raif71]

Do know that the position that you are describing is not meaningful for comparing two amps. Given the different gain stage setups on amps, and different potentiometers, it's fairly meaningless to try to compare those.

But if excess headroom is all that matters to you, get an Emotiva A100, install the secret jumpers, and be done with it

Noted, at one time one of my amp on the list but after amps coming out with 4.4 pentaconn....maybe not that much meaningful and budget wise it is more pricey. Touching on the different gain stages of amps etc yes not that fair for L30 using SE and then ifi Zen using pentaconn but it is what it is for me ie more headroom.

 

[makatech]

You have fallen headlong into head-fi. Again.

This Head-fi vs ASR thing some of you guys are doing almost every single day is laughable and embarrassing. I'm not sure this provoking attitude is good for ASR but maybe I'm wrong. Luckily most people except perhaps me and a couple of others don't care at all. I guess you enjoy making fun of other people not sharing the same views as you.

 

[raistlin65]

This Head-fi vs ASR thing some of you guys are doing almost every single day is laughable and embarrassing. I'm not sure this provoking attitude is good for ASR but maybe I'm wrong. Luckily most people except perhaps me and a couple don't care at all. I guess you enjoy making fun of other people not sharing the same views as you, close to bullying. I can tell you one thing dude, it would hurt.

Do you understand the difference between ASR and Head-Fi?

You will be modded at Head-Fi for expressing some audio science principles. And if you do it repeatedly, banned.

Consequently, it is snake oil audio, whatever I hear must be the truth, audio science denying gone wild.

 

[Veri]

But if excess headroom is all that matters to you, get an Emotiva A100, install the secret jumpers, and be done with it

The A-100 is pretty noisy though, for anything that isn't high impedance dynamic or planar

 

[Sukie]

This Head-fi vs ASR thing some of you guys are doing almost every single day is laughable and embarrassing. I'm not sure this provoking attitude is good for ASR but maybe I'm wrong. Luckily most people except perhaps me and a couple of others don't care at all. I guess you enjoy making fun of other people not sharing the same views as you.

You fail to distinguish between difference and opposition. Certain discussions/opinions will facilitate debate on Head-fi, certain discussions/opinions will facilitate discussions/opinions on ASR. This is not opposition, this is difference. To point this out is not to make fun of you.

 

[Jimbob54]

This Head-fi vs ASR thing some of you guys are doing almost every single day is laughable and embarrassing. I'm not sure this provoking attitude is good for ASR but maybe I'm wrong. Luckily most people except perhaps me and a couple of others don't care at all. I guess you enjoy making fun of other people not sharing the same views as you.

Im not sure a flippant one liner constitutes a declaration of war ;-)

Someone going on an off topic highly subjective "review" of two amps, in my book, needs a little chiding though.

 

[makatech]

You fail to distinguish between difference and opposition. Certain discussions/opinions will facilitate debate on Head-fi, certain discussions/opinions will facilitate discussions/opinions on ASR. This is not opposition, this is difference. To point this out is not to make fun of you.

This was my view before too before reading some posts here from people making fun of the forum (and the members) on head-fi (on a constant basis).

I guess what's disturbing me is people being the complete opposite of being humble and throwing their own "thruths" all over the place and also this attitude which in some cases getting close to bullying (or at least annoying/tiring when having to read similar oneliners and jokes about head-fi every single day).

It's ok I guess, I don't have to be here but it's still kind of annoying because in general I liked the forum.

 

[Jimbob54]

This was my view before too before reading some posts here from people making fun of the forum (and the members) on head-fi (on a constant basis).

I guess what's disturbing me is people being the complete opposite of being humble and throwing their own "thruths" all over the place and also this attitude which is some cases getting close to bullying (or at least annoying/tiring when having to read similar one liners and jokes about head-fi every single day).

I think they are big boys and girls

 

[makatech]

I think they are big boys and girls

I guess but some messages... I feel I can't take it, I get upset and want to hit back much harder (in words). ;-) In the same way, why should I sink myself to the same pathetic low level. It's fascinating me posts like my example below aren't moderated but in the same way I guess it's messages like this you other guys love and adore with this forum, it's messages like this which makes you come back, not to forget multiple jokes about Head-fi members and their views almost every day. We are all different, peace.

This is an example:
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...headphone-amp-review.9885/page-10#post-545707

 

[Jimbob54]

I guess but some messages... I feel I can't take it, I get upset and want to hit back much harder (in words). ;-) In the same way, why should I sink myself to the same pathetic low level. It's fascinating me posts like my example below aren't moderated but in the same way I guess it's messages like this you other guys love and adore with this forum, it's messages like this which makes you come back, not to forget multiple jokes about Head-fi members and views almost every day. We are all different, peace.

This is an example:
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...headphone-amp-review.9885/page-10#post-545707

Possibly not a good taste post you have linked I would agree.

My personal peeve is overly subjective fluffy member reviews which echo more something seen on HF and other audio venues. Especially when the post is trying to compare and contrast subjectively devices where measurements suggest no such "sound" should occur and the poster has clearly not made any attempts to control the listening to rule out level differences and sighted bias. I will never not call those out, largely because I think the poster is trying to demonstrate/ brag about their kit , listening skills or writing ability.

 

[Sukie]

I guess but some messages... I feel I can't take it, I get upset and want to hit back much harder (in words). ;-) In the same way, why should I sink myself to the same pathetic low level. It's fascinating me posts like my example below aren't moderated but in the same way I guess it's messages like this you other guys love and adore with this forum, it's messages like this which makes you come back, not to forget multiple jokes about Head-fi members and views almost every day. We are all different, peace.

This is an example:
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...headphone-amp-review.9885/page-10#post-545707

That particular poster is hardly a prolific contributor. The language is not language that I would use (most of the time!) but it's not hugely offensive. It certainly doesn't require official moderation.

You must know by now that when people post subjective posts they're going to get a fairly "robust" response. That's a given.

 

[raistlin65]

This was my view before too before reading some posts here from people making fun of the forum (and the members) on head-fi (on a constant basis).

You don't seem to understand what Head-Fi represents. Science is heavily censored on Head-Fi

This statement is from the terms of use for the website

If what you want to post includes words/phrases like "placebo," "expectation bias," "ABX," "blind testing," etc., please post it in the Sound Science forum.

https://www.head-fi.org/articles/terms-of-service.6725/

And it is not a request. Other than in that small Sound Science Forum area of the website, if you try to make an argument for applying audio science principles to audio equipment selection using these common terms, your post will be moderated. Repeated use, and you will be banned.

Moreover, links to ASR will be removed if you post them. And if you continue to post them, you'll be banned. Because ASR is contrary to Head-Fi's subjectivist commercial ad model.

So criticism of Head-Fi and the rampant science denier subjectivism that goes on there is entirely justified. Heck, they have an entire forum area devoted to the promotion of snake oil cable products, which reiterates the no discussion of ABX or DBT at the top of the forum

https://www.head-fi.org/forums/cables-power-tweaks-speakers-accessories-dbt-free-forum.21/

 

[raif71]

You don't seem to understand what Head-Fi represents. Science is heavily censored on Head-Fi

This statement is from the terms of use for the website



https://www.head-fi.org/articles/terms-of-service.6725/

And it is not a request. Other than in that small Sound Science Forum area of the website, if you try to make an argument for applying audio science principles to audio equipment selection using these common terms, your post will be moderated. Repeated use, and you will be banned.

Moreover, links to ASR will be removed if you post them. And if you continue to post them, you'll be banned. Because ASR is contrary to Head-Fi's subjectivist commercial ad model.

So criticism of Head-Fi and the rampant science denier subjectivism that goes on there is entirely justified. Heck, they have an entire forum area devoted to the promotion of snake oil cable products, which reiterates the no discussion of ABX or DBT at the top of the forum

https://www.head-fi.org/forums/cables-power-tweaks-speakers-accessories-dbt-free-forum.21/

I would say that not all Head-Fi threads are like what you said. I'm currently watching the Q5s thread and when one member mentioned ASR review of the Fiio Q5s and hope that Fiio looked into the matter, I find that members were concerned. I didn't find any mockery and whenever the matter was raised time and time again, I would say most were civil about it. Anyway, suppose Head-Fi is indeed against ASR and making fun of us, why should we follow such behaviour? I mean, we're in the "science" side should be better than that, right?