ifi Zen DAC and Headphone Amp Review

[raistlin65]

I think you replied instead of posting. No idea what point you are making.

I was replying to you, pointing out how the product naming is likely contributing to those "YouTube reviewers Aggressively Masturbating over it."

In fact, I just saw someone on Reddit recommending it, and in the sentence describing the Zen, the first adjective used was "cool." Seems like word association with the product name to me. And wouldn't you like a "Hip DAC" so you can feel hip? lol

 

[Taddpole]

And wouldn't you like a "Hip DAC" so you can feel hip? lol

Kind of assumed it was a hip dac as it looks like a hip flask

 

[odyo]

I've tried this product. Surprisingly i find it actually bright sounding. I've tried balanced output and ifi ipower as well. It can get very loud but with the increase of volume this thing gets brighter and sharper. GTO filter is even more bright and have brittle treble.

Disclamier: psychoacoustics

 

[Veri]

I've tried this product. Surprisingly i find it actually bright sounding. I've tried balanced output and ifi ipower as well. It can get very loud but with the increase of volume this thing gets brighter and sharper. GTO filter is even more bright and have brittle treble.

And of course the head-fiers will tell you it should sound "warm" and analogue

 

[MiloTheFirst]

I was contemplating getting a Zen dac ever since it released a year ago. I just want to finally try the pentacom cable that came included with my hd660s and don't have much money to spend for what would become my daily driver dac/amp for when I am both in front of my computer and just sitting exclusively listening to music somewhere around the house, however, after reading Amir's review I was very disappointed. a couple months ago I bought myself a sonata hd pro which is without a doubt the clearest dac I have ever listened at, driving my 660s to even higher levels I would feel comfortable at, but I got this feeling that I am still not getting their full potential which I might solve by plugging them to something more powerful, hence why I am back to evaluating getting a low cost balanced dac/amp unit. I first thought of the Zen dac signature, hoping that the (advertised) higher quality components might improve its measurements, while I don't expect this one to power a set of HD650 (thus why they also sell the Zen Can) maybe it would be just enough for the 150 ohm 660s, but their cost (plus the fact that i am in europe) discourages me

as an alternative I was thinking of the hip dac. while the dac part should be the same as the zen, I was thinking that the fact that it runs on its own battery and that its signal usb port is separate from the charging one could result in the signal staying somewhat cleaner, even when connected to a desktop, and I am not an electrical engineer but perhaps having even less out ports than the Zen might help in this regard. I would love to know your thoughts about this

then the Fiio Q3 is just launching as an alternative for portable dac with 4.4mm output, and at about the same price to boot. my problem with this one is that its maximum power delivery doesn't seem very high, but maybe fiio's measurements might at least be more honest than IFI's, the fact that the review for the Q5s gave an awful impression doesn't help though. I want to believe on the Hip's potential but every time I open IFI's website their advertisement seems sleazy AF (power match, true bass, anyone?) to put it gently.

what do you guys think would be a better solution? any other alternative around the 150€ bracket? I know that if I just want more power a NX4 would get me covered far better than any of those two could dream of but then I still wouldn't have a way to test my cans on balanced

 

[raistlin65]

I was contemplating getting a Zen dac ever since it released a year ago. I just want to finally try the pentacom cable that came included with my hd660s and don't have much money to spend for what would become my daily driver dac/amp for when I am both in front of my computer and just sitting exclusively listening to music somewhere around the house, however, after reading Amir's review I was very disappointed. a couple months ago I bought myself a sonata hd pro which is without a doubt the clearest dac I have ever listened at, driving my 660s to even higher levels I would feel comfortable at, but I got this feeling that I am still not getting their full potential which I might solve by plugging them to something more powerful, hence why I am back to evaluating getting a low cost balanced dac/amp unit. I first thought of the Zen dac signature, hoping that the (advertised) higher quality components might improve its measurements, while I don't expect this one to power a set of HD650 (thus why they also sell the Zen Can) maybe it would be just enough for the 150 ohm 660s, but their cost (plus the fact that i am in europe) discourages me

as an alternative I was thinking of the hip dac. while the dac part should be the same as the zen, I was thinking that the fact that it runs on its own battery and that its signal usb port is separate from the charging one could result in the signal staying somewhat cleaner, even when connected to a desktop, and I am not an electrical engineer but perhaps having even less out ports than the Zen might help in this regard. I would love to know your thoughts about this

then the Fiio Q3 is just launching as an alternative for portable dac with 4.4mm output, and at about the same price to boot. my problem with this one is that its maximum power delivery doesn't seem very high, but maybe fiio's measurements might at least be more honest than IFI's, the fact that the review for the Q5s gave an awful impression doesn't help though. I want to believe on the Hip's potential but every time I open IFI's website their advertisement seems sleazy AF (power match, true bass, anyone?) to put it gently.

what do you guys think would be a better solution? any other alternative around the 150€ bracket? I know that if I just want more power a NX4 would get me covered far better than any of those two could dream of but then I still wouldn't have a way to test my cans on balanced

The Tempotec Sonata HD Pro is a better DAC than what is in the Zen DAC. Combine it with a Schiit Heresy or Topping L30, and you'll have a better setup than the Zen.

 

[raif71]

I've been more than happy with my ifi purchases, the ifi zen can and the ifi hipdac. Equally satisfied with other Topping and Fiio purchases. I feel just lucky that the local audio shops here support these brands. If only Schiit and JDS products were available here, I really would like to get the Heresy.

 

[makatech]

The Tempotec Sonata HD Pro is a better DAC than what is in the Zen DAC. Combine it with a Schiit Heresy or Topping L30, and you'll have a better setup than the Zen.

You writing "The Tempotec Sonata HD Pro is a better DAC", I wouldn't be too sure about this myself, this is your strictly personal view, being humble is not your thing though I guess. ;-)

What didn't you like when testing and listening to the iFi Zen Dac?

Just found an interesting rank of 170 headphones. A subjective ranking though but still an interesting reading and all of the 170 headphones tested together with another Burr-Brown equipped iFi amp/dac product, the iFi Micro Black Label.

Would be a bit surprising if choosing a dac/amp equipped with a really poor DAC chip for a huge test like this, don't you think?

https://crinacle.com/2020/10/10/the-spicy-update-170-headphones-ranked/
https://crinacle.com/rankings/headphones/

 

[makatech]

And of course the head-fiers will tell you it should sound "warm" and analogue

As long as we use the word "smooth" for describing a Burr-Brown equipped DAC it's fine? You really hate the word "warm", guess you are a sensitive guy? (nothing wrong with being sensitive though) Do you think you are better or more competent in this area comparing to the forum users on Head-fi or what's the point you are trying to make?

 

[Veri]

Do you think you are better or more competent in this area comparing to the forum users on Head-fi or what's the point you are trying to make?

I'm saying this forum isn't Head-Fi. And no, "smooth" is just as bad as warm, there's no such property that Burr-Brown chips inherently possess, feel free to prove otherwise.

 

[Jimbob54]

You writing "The Tempotec Sonata HD Pro is a better DAC", I wouldn't be too sure about this myself, this is your strictly personal view, being humble is not your thing though I guess. ;-)

What didn't you like when testing and listening to the iFi Zen Dac?

Just found an interesting rank of 170 headphones. A subjective ranking though but still an interesting reading and all of the 170 headphones tested together with another Burr-Brown equipped iFi amp/dac product, the iFi Micro Black Label.

Would be a bit surprising if choosing a dac/amp equipped with a really poor DAC chip for a huge test like this, don't you think?

https://crinacle.com/2020/10/10/the-spicy-update-170-headphones-ranked/
https://crinacle.com/rankings/headphones/

No- it measures better. Its a better DAC. Thats kind of the point of measurements- you dont need to resort to descriptors of sound that vary from user to user and kit to kit.

 

[odyo]

No- it measures better. Its a better DAC. Thats kind of the point of measurements- you dont need to resort to descriptors of sound that vary from user to user and kit to kit.

Measuring better doesn't make it ''better''. It's like saying ''this headphone supports 5hz-50khz so it should be better than 5hz-30khz headphone''

 

[Jimbob54]

Measuring better doesn't make it ''better''. It's like saying ''this headphone supports 5hz-50khz so it should be better than 5hz-30khz headphone''

Yes, it does. If the measure of a "better" dac is one that introduces the least amount of distortion and other artifacts. That's pretty much the objective view, isn't it?

And that headphone analogy is bogus. A headphone that measures better in terms of the core criteria of headphones (fr, comfort and distortion) is, objectively, better. No?

 

[odyo]

I've stacked this with Zen Can. GTO filter still sounds a bit sharper to me. Dac/Can combo kind of v shaped sounding. Sub bass is strong, highs are prominent. It has good control over driver. You can feel the sub bass rumbling with nuance compared to Zen Dac alone. Stacked together it sounds a bit more grounded and fuller with sparkle.

789 sounds faster and cleaner but have less dynamics and muted/distant sound. 789 have less glare and more smoothness in the treble, less sub bass and impact but quicker and detailed mid bass. 789 have depth and air in the soundstage. Zen Can more upfront.

789 is like neutral with sub bass roll off, Zen Can is like flat bass with glary/engaging treble and upfront presentation.

I might be imagining things so take this with grain of salt.

 

[Jimbob54]

Measuring better doesn't make it ''better''. It's like saying ''this headphone supports 5hz-50khz so it should be better than 5hz-30khz headphone''

So go on then, features, connections and aesthetics aside (because the requirements of each vary from user to user), what makes one dac better than another if not its various superior measurements?

 

[Jimbob54]

I've stacked this with Zen Can. GTO filter still sounds a bit sharper to me. Dac/Can combo kind of v shaped sounding. Sub bass is strong, highs are prominent. It has good control over driver. You can feel the sub bass rumbling with nuance compared to Zen Dac alone. Stacked together it sounds a bit more grounded and fuller with sparkle.

789 sounds faster and cleaner but have less dynamics and muted/distant sound. 789 have less glare and more smoothness in the treble, less sub bass and impact but quicker and detailed mid bass. 789 have depth and air in the soundstage. Zen Can more upfront.

789 is like neutral with sub bass roll off, Zen Can is like flat bass with glary/engaging treble and upfront presentation.

I might be imagining things so take this with grain of salt.

You have fallen headlong into head-fi. Again.

 

[odyo]

So go on then, features, connections and aesthetics aside (because the requirements of each vary from user to user), what makes one dac better than another if not its various superior measurements?

I don't know. Maybe filters ? Sinad doesn't matter as long as the distortion/noise inaudible. So 120 sinad dac not really better than 119 sinad dac. It measures better sure but we don't hear it right ? Better numbers are good accomplishment from an engineering point of view though.

 

[Jimbob54]

I don't know. Maybe filters ? Sinad doesn't matter as long as the distortion/noise inaudible. So 120 sinad dac not really better than 119 sinad dac. It measures better sure but we don't hear it right ? Better numbers are good accomplishment from an engineering point of view though.

I don't know. Maybe filters ? Sinad doesn't matter as long as the distortion/noise inaudible. So 120 sinad dac not really better than 119 sinad dac. It measures better sure but we don't hear it right ? Better numbers are good accomplishment from an engineering point of view though.

And don't forget, this mini thread started with a response to someone saying you can't say one dac is better than another as that's a subjective opinion. My point was it wasn't a subjective opinion. If the measurements say its better, it's "better" objectively. At its core function of transforming digital signal to analog.

 

[Sukie]

I don't know. Maybe filters ? Sinad doesn't matter as long as the distortion/noise inaudible. So 120 sinad dac not really better than 119 sinad dac. It measures better sure but we don't hear it right ? Better numbers are good accomplishment from an engineering point of view though.

What else is there? If a DAC is properly engineered and working properly then it is doing everything that a DAC needs to do. If you want to "add" anything into the chain then do it through eq later on.

 

[raistlin65]

You writing "The Tempotec Sonata HD Pro is a better DAC", I wouldn't be too sure about this myself, this is your strictly personal view, being humble is not your thing though I guess. ;-)

Why? Because my username is Raistlin? I just chose him because I find him an interesting character, not because I identify with him.

As @Jimbob54 said, the Sonata HD Pro is a better measuring DAC. It is the same model as the HIDIZS S8

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...dizs-s8-usb-c-headphone-adapter-review.10823/

Compare it to the DAC measurements for the Zen DAC on the first page of this thread. One does measure distinctly better. Then compare the Zen measurements to Amir's measurements for the Atom and Heresy, which are both better measuring and more capable.

Now it is possible, that someone would find this setup audibly indistinguishable from the Zen, even though it measures better. In that case, I guess you could say neither is better than the other, as long as they can adequately drive the user's headphones.

On the other hand, if someone did hear a difference, then the Zen would be offering less fidelity, based upon the measurements, which by the way have been vetted already by the ASR community. So they are accepted.