If you have a large room, are the smaller 8330/8331 Genelec speakers ever more beneficial over their larger counterparts?

[Diplo]

Basically, when room space isn’t an issue, would you still purchase smaller Genelecs? And why?

 

[tifune]

Basically, when room space isn’t an issue, would you still purchase smaller Genelecs? And why?

Room size is secondary to listening distance. Where do you sit relative to the speakers and/or their position relative to walls and other reflective surfaces?

 

[HarmonicTHD]

Genelec (and others) gives indications at what listening distance to use which size speaker (model). This gives a good starting point, which size to choose.

 

[Ellebob]

It depends on listening volume and bass. The smaller speaker won't play as loud which is fine if you listen at moderate volumes. If you like to turn it up go bigger.

Bass is a bigger difference, as a bigger speaker plays lower it will give a richer, fuller sound. You can add a sub to a system to compliment the system. I think a sub is appreciated in almost any system but even more so with smaller speakers.

 

[JustJones]

This Genelec chart is their recommended sitting distance in a room size up to certain cubic feet / meters. You need to look at the green recommended distance together with room volume they work in concert. If you put the 8331 in a room larger than 2650 cu ft then the green area wouldn't be accurate. You can still use the smaller monitors but you need to shorten the critical distance.

 

[Ellebob]

This chart is for monitoring and not general listening. We are Genelec dealers where I work and very familiar with their product. I know a ton of people that use their speakers at further distances in their living room, family room, etc.

If you go by this chart you should also not buy Polk, Kef, Revel, Paradigm, and the similar sized bookshelf speakers if you plan to sit more than 2m away. You would also need to spend 10 grand or more to get something that could work 3m away in the Genelec line up. If you want to play loud then you need to go big, same thing goes for bass. Or for bass you can also add a subwoofer.

If you are not concerned about playing loud and don't require a lot of bass for general listening then maybe the 8331, 8230, 8030 will be fine. Personally, I would even go smaller and add a sub if you're trying to keep within the same budget. I know there are no smaller models in the "ones" series. But this comes down to preference and for me I like hearing those lower octaves. I don't need very loud in my family or living room. In my home theater that is a different story.

Decide what is important for you, for listening level and bass. Then get speakers that fit your needs within your budget.

 

[fineMen]

This Genelec chart is their recommended sitting distance in a room size ...

This chart is for monitoring and not general listening. We are Genelec dealers ... . ... Then get speakers that fit your needs within your budget.

I'm not sure if Genelec manufactures monitors with different radiation patterns. So much different, that it would compensate vastly differing listening distances. Could anyone explicate on the reasoning behind the chart?

As a sidenote, secondary question, why is it the room's volume instead of a distance to sidewalls, backwall, ceiling individually? It should influence the impact of reverberation, early reflections in particular.

 

[thewas]

I'm not sure if Genelec manufactures monitors with different radiation patterns. So much different, that it would compensate vastly differing listening distances. Could anyone explicate on the reasoning behind the chart?

The text part of the chart explains it clearly:

 

[Sokel]

What do small speakers do in a large space?
Scientifically speaking,headaches do,not the simple one,the other,the round as if someone puts your head in a tight hat.

(I have a 250m³ /8828ft³ volume room,trust me i know)

 

[fineMen]

The text part of the chart explains it clearly:

Not, that is why I asked, mind you? Should I first explain my question further? For instance I was referring to the radiation pattern, and more.

 

[thewas]

Not, that is why I asked, mind you? Should I first explain my question further? For instance I was referring to the radiation pattern, and more.

You asked "Could anyone explicate on the reasoning behind the chart?" which in my opinion is clearly answered by Genelec in that text field. If you have other questions you should state them clearly, we cannot guess your thoughts.

 

[JustJones]

I'm not sure if Genelec manufactures monitors with different radiation patterns. So much different, that it would compensate vastly differing listening distances. Could anyone explicate on the reasoning behind the chart?

"Genelec recommends studio monitors based on typical listening distances and sound pressure levels(SPL). A matching subwoofer exists for each of our monitor model and size. We offer tips for finding a correct system setup in this internet-based guide or you can ask your local Genelec dealer or distributor for help with your individual situation. Selecting the correct monitoring speakers starts from defining your listening distance and identifying your optimal listening area.

The distance between you and your monitors is crucial, both in terms of performance and the SPL delivered to the listening position. Use the table here to compare the SPL capabilities of Genelec monitors. Our dedicated dealers and distributors are able to help you further in your selection process for your unique space, these are just general guidelines. "

Sorry if I wasn't clear but I was only offering the charts as they were meant to be used by Genelec. Somewhere to start.

 

[fineMen]

You asked "Could anyone explicate on the reasoning behind the chart?" which in my opinion is clearly answered by Genelec in that text field. If you have other questions you should state them clearly, we cannot guess your thoughts.

"Genelec recommends studio monitors based on typical listening distances and sound pressure levels(SPL).

Sometimes ... if was clearly referring to the directivity pattern twice. It should play a role but is not considered. I even stated an additional question in regard to the early reflections which should point to what I'm after. If you can't make sense of it, please don't feel obliged to answer the question.

 

[thewas]

Sometimes ... if was clearly referring to the directivity pattern twice. It should play a role but is not considered. I even stated an additional question in regard to the early reflections which should point to what I'm after. If you can't make sense of it, please don't feel obliged to answer the question.

Of course it will depend also on the directivity pattern, for example how wide it is horizontally or vertically but then also depends on the corresponding reflectivities and distances of the walls, ceiling and floor, but this wouldn't be a practical chart anymore.

By the way assuming that the communication problem is on the receiver side is always a comfortable excuse, reality shows that people that have real deep knowledge of the topic they are writing about (like for example Dr. Toole) formulate their thoughts and argumentation so clearly so that they are easy to understand, even by non native English speakers.

 

[Ellebob]

Directivity is based off the design of the speaker. All of their speakers have very good horizontal off axis dispersion and the coaxial models do well in the vertical. None of their speakers are highly directional like horn speakers.

Whether speakers are small or large sound disperses the same way based on physics. High frequencies because of their shorter wavelength do not travel as far. That is why when you see measurements posted here the estimated in room response has a slight slope compared to a mostly flat response when measured at 1 meter.

The Genelec's even do a little better off axis because of their shape and there will be lass cabinet diffraction compared to your typical box type speaker. There is also a difference between a waveguide and a horn. A waveguide is about matching the dispersion pattern between woofer and tweeter in the crossover region. Even their larger models still have good off axis dispersion so they are not more directional.

There is nothing different about the Genelec's than a similar sized speaker. They might disperse differently based on design but nothing that happens differently as sound transmits through the room, that is physics of sound.

 

[RobL]

Basically, when room space isn’t an issue, would you still purchase smaller Genelecs? And why?

Well, the typical constraints will apply to your purchase, namely budget, application, listening distance, required spl etc.
Are you using a subwoofer(s)? I purchased 8361’s mainly because subs were a no-go for my spouse. They extend low enough with enough output that I’m happy with the performance. If I had been able to use subs I would probably have bought further down the lineup.

 

[fineMen]

Of course it will depend also on the directivity pattern, for example how wide it is horizontally or vertically but then also depends on the corresponding reflectivities and distances of the walls, ceiling and floor, but this wouldn't be a practical chart anymore.

The chart suggests that with a bigger speaker not only the max output is enhanced, but the directivity is so, that a greater distance is acceptable in regard to the diffuse field.

I was only asking if a bigger (or any other) speaker of Genelec's actually shows more narrow directivity or not. If all Genelecs are more or less the same, the answer to the OP's question would take one direction, an other otherwise. If he puts value in the spinorama for home use to begin with.

My appologies if I hurt someone.

 

[thewas]

The chart suggests that with a bigger speaker not only the max output is enhanced, but the directivity is so, that a greater distance is acceptible in regard to the diffuse field.

I was only asking if a bigger (or any other) speaker of Genelec's aktually shows more narrow directivity or not. If all Genelecs are more or less the same the answer to the OP's question would take one direction, an other otherwise. If he puts value in the spinorama for home use to begin with.

The larger Genelecs (for example main vs mid or mid vs nearfield) have higher and earlier directivity, for example a medium main monitor (1237)

vs a medium mid monitor (8351)

vs a medium nearfield monitor (8330)

and the Genelec chart corretly represents that with its green regions and critical distance markings.

 

[fineMen]

... and the Genelec chart corretly represents that with its green regions and critical distance markings.

The Genelec chart represents, but does not explain. (In hindsight my question in post #7 wasn't that outlandish.) I'm pretty much sure that with the latter explanation the OP has one valuable piece of info more. Now he might evaluate his needs in regard to the diffuse field. He might also check if the minimal differences in the radiation pattern are worth the effort of bigger speakers, independent from Genelec's studio-oriented chart.

 

[thewas]

The Genelec chart represents, but does not explain.

What exactly doesn't it explain?

I'm pretty much sure that with the latter explanation the OP has one valuable piece of info more.

Which post number are you referring to there?