If "Tube Sound" Is a Myth, Why Tubes?

[Sal1950]

circlotron

Are yours OTL?

 

[egellings]

No. They are bridge type amps using an output transformer.

 

[Jas0_0]

I liked my valve (sorry I’m British) pre amp. According to Stereophile it measured abysmally, but the reviewer said it sounded amazing and back then I didn’t care for measurements. To me it sounded all lovely and liquid and smooth with this 3D holographic soundstage you could almost reach out and touch.

To convince myself I’d bought the right thing I’d tried removing it from my system and going straight from RME DAC to power amp a couple of times. Each time I was convinced something was missing so always put it back in.

Then one night I got stoned on some edibles sold to me by the guy who cuts my hair.

I was listening to a dub record. First I tried it DAC to valve pre to power amp to speakers. Then I removed the pre and went direct from DAC to power amp.

When the valve pre was removed, to my stoned mind, it was as if someone had taken all the components of the music that were swirling in a cozy but ill-defined cloud in front of the speakers, fixed them in place, and given them a little polish.

I never listened using the valve pre again, and I sold it soon afterwards.

This was around the time I discovered AudioScienceReview and began to understand the significance of measurements. My system is now far far cheaper and sounds far far better. Thank god for AudioScienceReview and thank god for edibles.

I think instead of insisting on blind testing, we should promote stoned testing.

 

[jkasch]

I liked my valve (sorry I’m British) pre amp. According to Stereophile it measured abysmally, but the reviewer said it sounded amazing and back then I didn’t care for measurements. To me it sounded all lovely and liquid and smooth with this 3D holographic soundstage you could almost reach out and touch.

To convince myself I’d bought the right thing I’d tried removing it from my system and going straight from RME DAC to power amp a couple of times. Each time I was convinced something was missing so always put it back in.

Then one night I got stoned on some edibles sold to me by the guy who cuts my hair.

I was listening to a dub record. First I tried it DAC to valve pre to power amp to speakers. Then I removed the pre and went direct from DAC to power amp.

When the valve pre was removed, to my stoned mind, it was as if someone had taken all the components of the music that were swirling in a cozy but ill-defined cloud in front of the speakers, fixed them in place, and given them a little polish.

I never listened using the valve pre again, and I sold it soon afterwards.

This was around the time I discovered AudioScienceReview and began to understand the significance of measurements. My system is now far far cheaper and sounds far far better. Thank god for AudioScienceReview and thank god for edibles.

I think instead of insisting on blind testing, we should promote stoned testing.

Far out, man.

 

[Jas0_0]

Far out, man.

Haha, mine is a silly little story. Sorry I don’t have any great technical insight that would add more meaningfully to the thread.

 

[jkasch]

Haha, mine is a silly little story. Sorry I don’t have any great technical insight that would add more meaningfully to the thread.

Me neither. Just trying to add a little humor.

 

[Sal1950]

This was around the time I discovered AudioScienceReview and began to understand the significance of measurements. My system is now far far cheaper and sounds far far better. Thank god for AudioScienceReview and thank god for edibles.

Glad we've been able to help along the way.
That was the kind of results Amir hoped for when he started this site.
Salute'

 

[JustJones]

What's an edible? I'm old.

 

[Inner Space]

What's an edible? I'm old.

Marijuana, for those who don't like to smoke.

 

[JustJones]

Marijuana, for those who don't like to smoke.

Ah, brownies. I haven't smoked since.... I think 76 or 77.

 

[Jas0_0]

Ah, brownies. I haven't smoked since.... I think 76 or 77.

Actually mine were candy floss-flavoured boiled sweets laced with cannabis. Not the most complementary two flavours it turned out, but I wasn’t really in it for the taste.

 

[Sal1950]

Ah, brownies. I haven't smoked since.... I think 76 or 77.

Why not???

 

[Robin L]

Why not???

There is the potential of an abreaction to the stuff. Kinda like the whole "Tubes" controversy---is it really euphonic distortion, or is the glowing tubes thing + what I'm imbibing right now jacking up my expectation bias*? Sometimes it can make people feel unusually uncomfortable in various ways. Maureen Dowd is a case in point:

Opinion | Don’t Harsh Our Mellow, Dude - The New York Times (nytimes.com)

And like Baba Ram Dass said of LSD back in the day, "Once you get the message, it's time to hang up the phone."

*It's probably the transformers.

 

[don'ttrustauthority]

There is one school of thought that an amp should just be transparent in that what comes out should be a perfect replica of what goes in as indicated by various measurements. The closer you get to this asymptotically, less it matters how it is achieved since the thesis is that you cannot really tell the difference between them with well-designed listening tests. This camp does not claim there is no “tube sound”. But holds that the “tube sound” comes from deviations from the perfect replica of sound and so not of interest (to them).

There is another school of thought that the goal isn’t a perfect replica but rather to achieve what is perceived as more pleasant or musical or less fatigue-inducing or emotionally satisfying for them individually. The measurements would only be relevant to the extent that they don’t indicate distortions or characteristics that would lead to less of those desired goals, like clipping, gross non-linearities, etc. Achieving perfect replicas is not the point at all.

Both are perfectly legitimate schools of thought even if they vehemently don’t agree with each other and go to extreme lengths to invalidate the other which is largely a futile and a “religious” argument (because of the differences in the axioms of each school, rather than the methodology).

In an ideal world, both would co-exist peacefully but are drawn into conflict when realities of the marketplace force manufacturers to claim that their equipment simultaneously satisfy both those schools of thought and therein lies the problem.

What are these schools of thought called? What texts do the espouse? Where have they published their views?

Let's dig a little deeper into the problem you have so diligently identified.

 

[avanti1960]

Like tube sound, guilty as charged. The best sounding ones (to me) have the least (if not no) coloration. Listening prior to forming opinions is highly recommended.

 

[Julf]

Like tube sound, guilty as charged. The best sounding ones (to me) have the least (if not no) coloration. Listening prior to forming opinions is highly recommended.

But if it has no coloration, why bother with tubes? isn't "tube sound" by definition coloration/distortion?

 

[_thelaughingman]

Like tube sound, guilty as charged. The best sounding ones (to me) have the least (if not no) coloration. Listening prior to forming opinions is highly recommended.

This is a paradox that makes no sense.

 

[JustJones]

Like tube sound, guilty as charged. The best sounding ones (to me) have the least (if not no) coloration. Listening prior to forming opinions is highly recommended.

I would say listening in a controlled blind test before forming opinions is required.

 

[Sal1950]

But if it has no coloration, why bother with tubes? isn't "tube sound" by definition coloration/distortion?

As one who sortof felt the same way, because they're so damn "kool" to watch the glow in a darkened listening room, and in northern climates they help to warm a cold winters room. A nostalgia thing like using vinyl.

 

[Julf]

As one who sortof felt the same way, because they're so damn "kool" to watch the glow in a darkened listening room, and in northern climates they help to warm a cold winters room. A nostalgia thing like using vinyl.

Well, yes. I also enjoy the hypnotic sight of tape reels rotating.