I can't tell a difference between 4 phono preamps

[sq225917]

Pffft, Ein.

-86db noise for the paradise, unweighted at 62db gain. If built with rigour and selecting input stage for noise. But it's a real slog.

 

[al2002]

86 dB re. how many V at the output?

 

[nmarzoli]

Hey OP,

Did you find that with the Parasound XRM, enabling the mono switch makes the overall volume louder? I'm not sure if that's normal or not, because I have another pre with a mono switch and it doesn't do this like my XRM does.

 

[BobPM]

My experience is the same as a previous response that the cartridge makes an order of magnitude difference. I had an AT-440mlb on my SL-12000GR and upgraded from a 15 year old Project phono box to a Darlington Labs MM-6 and did find noticeable improvement. However, when I went from the AT-440mlb to the AT-OC9XML moving coil the improvement was significantly more dramatic. Both cartridges have the microline stylus and track really well, but the clarity and overall balance of the sound was much improved with the mc. Of course, you needed a head-amp or step-up transformer for the Darlington. In short, be sure to get a phono pre that allows you to adjust gain and impedance if you think a low output MC is in your future. The AT-OC9XML is a really good value with its boron cantilever and great tracking stylus for about $550.

I should note that I went back to the old phono box when I first received the cartridge since I did not have a head amp or step-up transformer. The differences using the better phono stage (once I finally obtained a head-amp) was more noticeable using the better cartridge. I will stop here and admit that no blind a-b comparisons were done here, but unlike swapping DACs or cables, the differences in sound were readily apparent with the cartridge swap, and less so with the pre-amp swaps.

 

[Digby]

I recorded the same track using my RME interface through three different phono preamps, the Cambridge Duo, Solo and ART DJ pre II. My findings switching between them (not double blind, sorry), was that Duo and Solo essentially sounded identical, the ART DJ seems to have a less focussed bass (this may be the phase issues that Amir found?), but when everything was level matched it wasn't miles away from the two Cambridge units.

I think the Solo (if you don't need MC), is the pick of the bunch. The only problem with these phono stages (Solo/Duo) is they put out a very high signal and with loud 12" 45rpm records will clip inputs, unless using a special lo-gain setting. This setting may not be available on many soundcards. This is only a problem if you seek to digitize and have very loud cut records.

 

[Revelation Sound]

I just ordered the XRM phono pre that I will be comparing to the phono pre in my NAD. I am thinking about getting the JC3 Jr as well and see if it makes any difference.

One thing to consider is the rest of your audio chain. If you have a $1,000 stereo, it may not allow you to hear all the details of a $5,000 stereo with better speakers, and amp. With the higher end stereo, you might be able to hear more of a difference with a better phono pre which might allow you to hear more details.

 

[RammisFrammis]

If the capacitance loading of the MM input is different between two phono preamps, that can cause audible changes in the high end response. My preamp has multiple loading options from 50pF to 400pF and they do alter the response visibly and audibly. The resistive loading for MM is always 47k.

 

[Revelation Sound]

Here is a solid article about phono pre's.
RIAA equalization is a form of pre-emphasis on recording and de-emphasis on playback. A recording is made with the low frequencies reduced and the high frequencies boosted, and on playback, the opposite occurs. The net result is a flat frequency response, but with attenuation of high-frequency noise such as hiss and clicks that arise from the recording medium. Reducing the low frequencies also limits the excursions the cutter needs to make when cutting a groove. Cheaper phono pre's of course will not perform as well as better phono pre's with cheaper parts.

What’s the Difference Between a $100 and a $2,000 Phono Preamp? | Gear Patrol

You already have a turntable and a pair of bookshelf speakers. How much should you spend on a phono preamp?

www.gearpatrol.com

 

[Revelation Sound]

I just ordered the XRM phono pre that I will be comparing to the phono pre in my NAD. I am thinking about getting the JC3 Jr as well and see if it makes any difference.

One thing to consider is the rest of your audio chain. If you have a $1,000 stereo, it may not allow you to hear all the details of a $5,000 stereo with better speakers, and amp. With the higher end stereo, you might be able to hear more of a difference with a better phono pre which might allow you to hear more details.

I was told by Music Direct that I will hear a significant different between the XRM and JC3 Jr. The blacks will be blacker and the detail of the music will be improved. So I ordered the JC3 Jr and will being doing a shootout between the NAD phono pre, the XRM and the JC3 Jr. I will report back here on what I found.

UPDATE: I spoke to Parsound which was a lot more helpful than a sales person at a audio store. Based on my turntable and MM Cartridge which is just a couple hundred dollars, they recommended I stay with the XRM phono preamp which will provide an improvement over the NAD I have. The JC3 Jr will be more helpful if I had a better turntable with a higher end MC cartridge that can pickup more detail. That is when the JC3 Jr will make an improvement.

 

[RammisFrammis]

Here is a solid article about phono pre's.
RIAA equalization is a form of pre-emphasis on recording and de-emphasis on playback. A recording is made with the low frequencies reduced and the high frequencies boosted, and on playback, the opposite occurs. The net result is a flat frequency response, but with attenuation of high-frequency noise such as hiss and clicks that arise from the recording medium. Reducing the low frequencies also limits the excursions the cutter needs to make when cutting a groove. Cheaper phono pre's of course will not perform as well as better phono pre's with cheaper parts.

What’s the Difference Between a $100 and a $2,000 Phono Preamp? | Gear Patrol

You already have a turntable and a pair of bookshelf speakers. How much should you spend on a phono preamp?

www.gearpatrol.com

The 'expert' which this articles interviews works for McIntosh. Guess what brand comes out on top of all others? The underlying information may be correct as far as it goes, but biased pieces like this are all-to-pervasive on the internet. Yes, the McIntosh undoubtedly has excellent performance, but you are also paying a lot for the unnecessary packaging bling.

The sweet spot for most people I believe is in the $500 range. I have the ProJect Phonobox RS2 which costs $2000 but I bought it because I needed the balanced inputs/outputs and the front panel adjustments. If somebody doesn't need that then a much less expensive one will do the job.

 

[mhardy6647]

Here is a solid article about phono pre's.
RIAA equalization is a form of pre-emphasis on recording and de-emphasis on playback. A recording is made with the low frequencies reduced and the high frequencies boosted, and on playback, the opposite occurs. The net result is a flat frequency response, but with attenuation of high-frequency noise such as hiss and clicks that arise from the recording medium. Reducing the low frequencies also limits the excursions the cutter needs to make when cutting a groove. Cheaper phono pre's of course will not perform as well as better phono pre's with cheaper parts.

What’s the Difference Between a $100 and a $2,000 Phono Preamp? | Gear Patrol

You already have a turntable and a pair of bookshelf speakers. How much should you spend on a phono preamp?

www.gearpatrol.com

There was virtually nothing useful in that article. Did you link to the right one?

 

[Revelation Sound]

I received the Parasound XRM phono preamp and compared it to my NAD 658. The overall sound was clearer and more up front. At the 40db level it was just a tad louder. I opted to go for the 50 db. for the extra volume. It's clean, quiet, and fits nicely inn my stereo rack. I am a happy camper. Definitely a better amp inside the Parasound.

 

[Thomas_A]

If you are not afraid of kits, Muffsy is a flexible high-end for under $200.

Muffsy DIY Phono Kits

The Muffsy Phono Kits are complete hifi kits for record players for all cartridges ranging from LOMC to HOMC and MM.

www.muffsy.com

 

[Revelation Sound]

I purchased the Parasound JC3 JR, and was surprised how similar the two sounded. The one difference in sound was the bass on the JC3 JR was tighter while on the XRM it is a little more rounded. I went back and forth A/B the two and really thought the JC3 Jr was not worth it for the difference. However, after more careful listening, I noticed the dynamics on the JC3 JR was what made the biggest difference. The accents and small details were brought forward. The front to back (depth) was improved on it as well. Once I noticed the difference, it was hard not to notice it when I went back to the XRM phono pre. So I decided to keep the JR and I am enjoying my records more with it.

 

[Chrispy]

I purchased the Parasound JC3 JR, and was surprised how similar the two sounded. The one difference in sound was the bass on the JC3 JR was tighter while on the XRM it is a little more rounded. I went back and forth A/B the two and really thought the JC3 Jr was not worth it for the difference. However, after more careful listening, I noticed the dynamics on the JC3 JR was what made the biggest difference. The accents and small details were brought forward. The front to back (depth) was improved on it as well. Once I noticed the difference, it was hard not to notice it when I went back to the XRM phono pre. So I decided to keep the JR and I am enjoying my records more with it.

How did you level match and do quick switching for your comparison?

 

[Revelation Sound]

They both provided 60 db of gain so it was easy to match. However just for removing the louder sounds better thought process, I also had the JC3 Jr volume a tad lower than the XRM on purpose and I still heard the improvements it offered. Im sure some will still argue i am being tricked thinking it was better but that is your problem not mine. If I am happy with the results that is what matters.

 

[BDWoody]

I was told by Music Direct that I will hear a significant different between the XRM and JC3 Jr. The blacks will be blacker and the detail of the music will be improved.

The one difference in sound was the bass on the JC3 JR was tighter while on the XRM it is a little more rounded. I went back and forth...after more careful listening, I noticed the dynamics on the JC3 JR was what made the biggest difference. The accents and small details were brought forward. The front to back (depth) was improved on it as well.

So, it worked out just like you were told it would. Funny how that goes...

Maybe try with sight and level controls.

Im sure some will still argue i am being tricked thinking it was better but that is your problem not mine.

You are setting yourself up to BE tricked, but there's no way to actually know without more rigorous controls.

 

[JP]

For a minute I thought I was on a different forum.

 

[Bob from Florida]

So, it worked out just like you were told it would. Funny how that goes...

Maybe try with sight and level controls.



You are setting yourself up to BE tricked, but there's no way to actually know without more rigorous controls.

The problem with phono preamps is RIAA implementation. I think Amir is correct in giving the RIAA accuracy greater consideration with regard to his reviews. You could level match 2 phono preamps at 1 KHZ and still end up with different sound if the RIAA curves don't match. We know from various reviews that the curves generally do not match. I do agree the testing needs to be blind in any case. However, where DACS are almost always ruler flat frequency response, phono preamps are all over the map. The variability is what I think makes the difference folks can hear in some instances. A little "bass boost" goes a long way in hearing differences.

 

[Capitol C]

As long as you are on this track, why not go really cheap, https://www.amazon.com/Turntable-Pr...a-758080399576&ref=&adgrpid=71764767031&th=1?
I'm being serious here. I have a good turntable, but it is because I am older than dirt and can't get myself to throw out all the records I bought, starting about 1964 and up until CDs were introduced. I have integrated amps, and the preamp stages are fine, as far as I can tell. I'm using the Ortofon Red, which I believe is what you get with your turntable.