notsodeadlizard
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How to treat a room 2x 2metres low cost effectively
- Thread starter KehaDNb
- Start date
It will work best if you are very near field: setup the speakers on a desk facing a wall. Put the speakers as close as possible to the wall. Put the tweater are ears level. Something like that.
The setup is 100% from IKEA. Speakers are from Adam T7V.
As many told, add as much as furniture as possible. I have a bed behind me with a bunch of cushion.
To tame the bass, don't use bass trap (the room is too small and they are expensive). Use EQ (see REW a free software to do it).
If you do not have enough bass, add a sub (there is one hidden down under the desk). It helps the speaker by allowing them to play only above 80Hz.
The IKEA acoustic panels are useless so don't buy them (the square along the left wall on the picture). The panels behind the speakers made a small impact I am not sure they are worth it. If you want panels that works, they will need to be thicker (and likely more expensive).
Results are not perfect. I need to move the sub, it is too close to the left speaker and of course has more or less the same behaviour.
Overall the sounds improved a lot with EQ and the max SPL is good enough.
My advice is: measure your room first, add an EQ and then you can ask which panels you need.
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- Thread Starter
- #23
Chill guys
- Thread Starter
- #24
@sarumbear to inform you, I’ll send the picture tomorrow morning. But moneywise it looks abit bad at the moment. I’m planning to do room treatment in a year or so.
This! Or go to your Corners. Any more like this and thread bans will result.
Deleted a few posts and cleaned up the thread for the OP.
When the environment is very small, direct and reflected sound arrives very close to each other. You said you need to separate them. Why was my question?
That guy is a weed seller, probably.
dasdoing
Major Contributor
What is the purpose of the room? I remember a Youtuber tested cheap materials and ended up hanging a bunch of framed towels on the wall
because you want to maintain the spatial data of the recording as much as possible without it being corrupted by the room's spatial cues.
you don't want the reflections to be received as part of the direct sound. but rather (ideally) as delayed reverberation. Otherwise you're just getting a worse headphone experience with even more mediocre sound staging.
Hi, 6ms is about two meters.
Like sarumbear suggests the flutter echo would be worst offender. The room i so small I'm not sure any proper acoustic treatment fits in, or if it does it gets too dead quick. But flutter echo is something one perhaps could and should address, if there is any. This is the worst offender and quite easy to hear and identify.
The idea is that it’s two way so one meter one way and one meter the other.
Well, thats perhaps to rough estimation. The idea is reflections come after direct sound, and their path length difference is what matters. These depend on positioning of things, when there is stereo speakers and one listener its triangle and every specular reflection is at some angle and path length difference something else than a simple round trip. Almost a round-trip happens roughly with wall behind the speaker, or wall behind listener.
Example, room height 2.5m, speaker and listener at 90cm height from floor. If listening distance is 3m then path length difference of the first specular ceiling reflection is only ~1.4meters even though the ceiling is 1.6m away from the speaker!
IF listening distance is halved to 1.5m, only then the path length difference to about 6ms, it would come about 2m later than direct sound.
2m x 2m room is so small, about all first reflections, except the ceiling one perhaps, and some 2nd and even 3rd order reflections come within the 6ms unless listening distance is < 1m. Perhaps put some acoustic panel, curtains, furniture, anything, to all first specular reflection points. there would be 12 for two speakers and six boundaries. And, as small stereo listening setup as possible to increase delays, to increase magnitude of direct sound compared to magnitude of room sound.
Example, with this positioning of single speaker and listener all 1st and some 2nd order reflections arrive within 6ms. Its top down view, one speaker left bottom, listener right middle. https://amcoustics.com/tools/amray
edit. I'm not pro on this stuff, above is just some stuff thats logical to me, doesn't mean its the best thing one could do. I'd try to knock down the worst offender, what ever that ends up being in the end. The room is very small, also limited budget, then try to get the clarity in somehow, reduce listening distance, try kill some flutter if any. Too much treatment could make it quickly uncomfortable that way.
Example, room height 2.5m, speaker and listener at 90cm height from floor. If listening distance is 3m then path length difference of the first specular ceiling reflection is only ~1.4meters even though the ceiling is 1.6m away from the speaker!
IF listening distance is halved to 1.5m, only then the path length difference to about 6ms, it would come about 2m later than direct sound.2m x 2m room is so small, about all first reflections, except the ceiling one perhaps, and some 2nd and even 3rd order reflections come within the 6ms unless listening distance is < 1m. Perhaps put some acoustic panel, curtains, furniture, anything, to all first specular reflection points. there would be 12 for two speakers and six boundaries. And, as small stereo listening setup as possible to increase delays, to increase magnitude of direct sound compared to magnitude of room sound.
Example, with this positioning of single speaker and listener all 1st and some 2nd order reflections arrive within 6ms. Its top down view, one speaker left bottom, listener right middle. https://amcoustics.com/tools/amray
edit. I'm not pro on this stuff, above is just some stuff thats logical to me, doesn't mean its the best thing one could do. I'd try to knock down the worst offender, what ever that ends up being in the end. The room is very small, also limited budget, then try to get the clarity in somehow, reduce listening distance, try kill some flutter if any. Too much treatment could make it quickly uncomfortable that way.
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I understand that but what has that relate to the OP’s question? He is asking advice for that room. Is your answer use a larger room?
It has nothing to do with OP's question, I was just explaining the problem with having an incredibly small room.
That’s not very helpful is it? Boasting about your knowledge when it’s not asked…
You literally asked what are the insurmountable problems small rooms have
You literally asked what are the insurmountable problems small rooms have
First I was replying to someone else second, you used the word difficult, i.e. possible but difficult to achieve, whereas it’s in fact impossible and there is nothing that can be done other than treating the environment as close-field and treat high frequency issues like flutter echo and add diffusion to reflections. I’m sure you know that too.
dasdoing
Major Contributor
well...thet say that room modes are purly minimum phase (something I am still computing). so the room size shouldn't matter and they could just be EQed out? obviously only would work for a single LP.
a thin absorber on the first reflection points will then be enough to make the imaging better
a thin absorber on the first reflection points will then be enough to make the imaging better
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- Thread Starter
- #40
That’s my room @sarumbear
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