How to stream from a PC to a Mac?

[Keith_W]

I want to stream music from my PC to a Mac. I am a Windows guy, and I have never owned a Mac before, so I know almost nothing about them. This is what I want to do:

- Windows PC ---> Mac Mini ---> DAC

The Windows PC is needed because Acourate only runs on Windows. Also, prices for storage is ridiculous on Macs and I already own the PC with a 4TB HDD, so it is staying. I will be using JRiver MC29, and I will be using the PC as a front end where I will control music playback, run streaming services, do measurements, and so on. When I do measurements, I will remove the Mac from the chain. The PC is already nicely set up with a touch screen, and I can control playback just by using the touch screen.

The Mac is needed because BACCH only runs on Mac . If BACCH could run on PC then I wouldn't have to consider a Mac at all! The Mac will accept audio input from the PC, then run the signal through CamillaDSP, and then output to my DAC. Because I am using a Merging DAC, it requires a CAT5e/6 cable and the Mac only has one LAN port. So I will have to buy a managed switch as well. Why do I need a managed switch and not an ordinary switch? Because Merging goes through great pains in their manual to explicitly say that I need a managed switch, even though I have no idea what a managed switch does!

Questions:

1. How do I connect the PC to the Mac? USB? Network cable? I prefer a wired connection because they will be next to each other.
2. Can a managed switch handle traffic like internet to the PC, whilst still allowing communication between PC, Mac, and the Merging DAC?
3. How do I set JRiver to output to the network cable or USB?
4. How do I route audio internally in the Mac? It will have to accept the audio signal either through network or USB and then route it to BACCH and then to a convolver.
5. Is there convolution software available on the Mac that is more user friendly than CamillaDSP? (Yes, I know that BACCH has a built-in convolver but it only does 6 channels. I need 8).
6. Can a Mac Mini run without a monitor and keyboard/mouse attached? Of course I will plug a monitor in when I am setting it up, but after it is set up, I don't plan to touch it or even give it access to the internet in case it decides to update itself and ruin something.
7. Do you foresee any problems with this approach? e.g. buffer under-runs. All the processing will be done in real time, so I am a little nervous whether it will work.

 

[somebodyelse]

Links to the Merging manual so we can see what the managed switch is meant to be doing, and exactly which capabilities are required?

 

[blueone]

Have you considered running a Virtual Machine Manager (VMM) on your PC? I've never tried it, but there's product called VirtualBox which claims to allow you to run a MacOS virtual machine on your PC. You can search for it.

 

[Keith_W]

Hmm! It has been a few years since I visited Merging's webpage. After you asked your question, I took a look and they no longer explicitly say that you need a managed switch. However, I did find this document on switches they recommend and how it should be set up.

 

[voodooless]

Links to the Merging manual so we can see what the managed switch is meant to be doing, and exactly which capabilities are required?

Nothing, the manual doesn’t say you need a manager switch at all. In fact is says most GBit switches should work fine and I don’t see a reason why not.

 

[sarumbear]

I want to stream music from my PC to a Mac. I am a Windows guy, and I have never owned a Mac before, so I know almost nothing about them. This is what I want to do:

- Windows PC ---> Mac Mini ---> DAC

The Windows PC is needed because Acourate only runs on Windows. Also, prices for storage is ridiculous on Macs and I already own the PC with a 4TB HDD, so it is staying. I will be using JRiver MC29, and I will be using the PC as a front end where I will control music playback, run streaming services, do measurements, and so on. When I do measurements, I will remove the Mac from the chain. The PC is already nicely set up with a touch screen, and I can control playback just by using the touch screen.

The Mac is needed because BACCH only runs on Mac . If BACCH could run on PC then I wouldn't have to consider a Mac at all! The Mac will accept audio input from the PC, then run the signal through CamillaDSP, and then output to my DAC. Because I am using a Merging DAC, it requires a CAT5e/6 cable and the Mac only has one LAN port. So I will have to buy a managed switch as well. Why do I need a managed switch and not an ordinary switch? Because Merging goes through great pains in their manual to explicitly say that I need a managed switch, even though I have no idea what a managed switch does!

Questions:

1. How do I connect the PC to the Mac? USB? Network cable? I prefer a wired connection because they will be next to each other.
2. Can a managed switch handle traffic like internet to the PC, whilst still allowing communication between PC, Mac, and the Merging DAC?
3. How do I set JRiver to output to the network cable or USB?
4. How do I route audio internally in the Mac? It will have to accept the audio signal either through network or USB and then route it to BACCH and then to a convolver.
5. Is there convolution software available on the Mac that is more user friendly than CamillaDSP? (Yes, I know that BACCH has a built-in convolver but it only does 6 channels. I need 8).
6. Can a Mac Mini run without a monitor and keyboard/mouse attached? Of course I will plug a monitor in when I am setting it up, but after it is set up, I don't plan to touch it or even give it access to the internet in case it decides to update itself and ruin something.
7. Do you foresee any problems with this approach? e.g. buffer under-runs. All the processing will be done in real time, so I am a little nervous whether it will work.

Isn’t there a DSP plugin for JRiver on Mac?

You need either an Ethernet switch or a crossover cable and use fixed IP address on each computer.

 

[voodooless]

As for your problem: you could use Dante to play Windows audio on your Mac. See: https://www.audinate.com/products/software/dante-virtual-soundcard

 

[Keith_W]

Have you considered running a Virtual Machine Manager (VMM) on your PC? I've never tried it, but there's product called VirtualBox which claims to allow you to run a MacOS virtual machine on your PC. You can search for it.

Hmmmm. After you mentioned that, I did some googling and found instructions on how to run a virtual Mac on a PC. You MIGHT have saved me a bit of money if I can get this working. I am thinking it will be a very complicated software setup to route audio from the PC into the Virtual Mac, and then from the Virtual Mac back into the PC, into the convolution engine, and out into the DAC. It involves multiple very steep learning curves, and I suspect that I will be the only person in the world who is attempting such a thing. I will have to do a lot of reading and acquire skills I don't have if I am going to pull this off.

 

[Keith_W]

As for your problem: you could use Dante to play Windows audio on your Mac. See: https://www.audinate.com/products/software/dante-virtual-soundcard

Right, so that solves part of the problem. How to route sound internally in the Mac, and it also tells me I will need a network cable to connect the PC to the Mac.

So right now, this looks like it will be the flowchart:

{PC}
JRiver ---> network output ---> Mac

{MAC}
Dante ---> BACCH ---> Dante ---> CamillaDSP ---> DAC

I still haven't figured out how to set JRiver to output via network. I realize ASR may not be the best place to ask this, so I might ask on the JRiver forum.

 

[somebodyelse]

The managed switch part would be for the VLANs and being able to configure the QoS. The VLANs (Virtual LANs) separate network traffic while the Quality of Service bit controls priority of different sorts of network packets. For a minimal installation like yours these probably won't be an issue unless you're using the cheapest of cheap network switches. I'd guess you're not using Power over Ethernet to power your DAC, so switches not having enough power for PoE won't be a problem either.

If I'm understanding it right you would also be running a Dante Virtual Soundcard on the Windows machine for JRiver to connect to.

 

[voodooless]

Right, so that solves part of the problem. How to route sound internally in the Mac, and it also tells me I will need a network cable to connect the PC to the Mac.

So right now, this looks like it will be the flowchart:

{PC}
JRiver ---> network output ---> Mac

{MAC}
Dante ---> BACCH ---> Dante ---> CamillaDSP ---> DAC

you’ll need Dante to connect PC and Mac. Once it’s in the Mac, you’re already fine.

I still haven't figured out how to set JRiver to output via network. I realize ASR may not be the best place to ask this, so I might ask on the JRiver forum.

You don’t need to fix that. You just play to the Dante virtual sound card and the audio ends up on the Mac.

 

[blueone]

Hmmmm. After you mentioned that, I did some googling and found instructions on how to run a virtual Mac on a PC. You MIGHT have saved me a bit of money if I can get this working. I am thinking it will be a very complicated software setup to route audio from the PC into the Virtual Mac, and then from the Virtual Mac back into the PC, into the convolution engine, and out into the DAC. It involves multiple very steep learning curves, and I suspect that I will be the only person in the world who is attempting such a thing. I will have to do a lot of reading and acquire skills I don't have if I am going to pull this off.

Agreed. Running VMMs on a PC, especially trying to get a MacOS VM on Windows working, is not for the timid. VirtualBox does have a facility for inter-VM networking, but I have to agree using VMMs can be confusing to the uninitiated.

As an alternative, have you considered a used Mac?

 

[voodooless]

You could also do it the other way around, run a Windows VM on a Mac. You’ll get the virtual sound card for free obviously, if you need to storage, this is not an advantage. You could however just network mount it. You could also do that on your Mac and find some good software to play your files. Roon wil also work on either platform, and I think you can use one as control and the other as playback.

 

[Keith_W]

As an alternative, have you considered a used Mac?

I was planning to get a secondhand Mac. I think it will be much simpler than trying to get a VMM running in my PC. I am still reading up on setting up VMM's in between checking on ASR and replying. I am attracted to the idea because it will be one less box and I save a bit of money. But if it proves too difficult i'll just buy a Mac.