How to make music in my small basement same as mark levinson in my car , and whats the next upgrade step after kef r3? bookshelves.

[Galliardist]

Btw, there's also a 5th shop now. The strange thing is that just a few days ago, there were none...

Edit - misread that. Looks like this is a new distributor or something. They'll probably get their demo products in the next few weeks. I'm not sure @bladest is that patient on current form.

 

[poxymoron]

Loving this. Will there be a season 2?

 

[Galliardist]

i dont own tesla.

Not sure you need to. It's some kind of headphone and wearable setup. Looks kind of interesting...

 

[Deleted member 51459]

Not sure you need to. It's some kind of headphone and wearable setup. Looks kind of interesting...

i sold my headphones i will no go back i am with big bookshelves now.

Edit - misread that. Looks like this is a new distributor or something. They'll probably get their demo products in the next few weeks. I'm not sure @bladest is that patient on current form.

i think you miss understand,
all of these fake shops
are most of them online ,if they have physical presense they got 0000 products, where is the point i cant try or test any of the products its useless.


yes they can make special order in case i decide to blind buy it.
I already blind bought kef r3 and nad m33 and i dont thinks thats good or wise.

 

[YSC]

They nothing in stock i dont plant to buy speakers and things without been able to hear them,

and about return, when you order special things not in stock , return days are 000
so it doesnt work for me. i already have done this with kef r3 and , and nad m33...
so i cant return them.

well if for genelec, you don't really need to try the best top end ones, try a low end like 8030, G3, etc.... without the GLM calibration done the lower end of them are really comparable to the high end SAM models, if they sounded good, the higher end will just be better, and have the GLM for you to just fix the room modes. if you don't like their lower end models except for lack of bass from say, 8010, then very likely you won't like the high end models either.

 

[Deleted member 51459]

Edit - misread that. Looks like this is a new distributor or something. They'll probably get their demo products in the next few weeks. I'm not sure @bladest is that patient on current form.

i think you miss understand,
all of these fake shops
are most of them online ,if they have physical presense they got 0000 products, where is the point i cant try or test any of the products its useless.


yes they can make special order in case i decide to blind buy it.
I already blind bought kef r3 and nad m33 and i dont thinks thats good or wise.

well if for genelec, you don't really need to try the best top end ones, try a low end like 8030, G3, etc.... without the GLM calibration done the lower end of them are really comparable to the high end SAM models, if they sounded good, the higher end will just be better, and have the GLM for you to just fix the room modes. if you don't like their lower end models except for lack of bass from say, 8010, then very likely you won't like the high end models either.

Again i will summarize it i just spoke with these fake genelec shops
they have 0000 products and they have not ordered them for long long time so i dont expect any good or decent service from them.
i can became fake genelec dealer too i simply need a web site, they even dont know if they can order me products thats how good are they and when i asked them about that brand they told me - that i probably mistaken them so they are not knowing that they are selling them such a shame.
Thats why i go focal and kef because they have better dealership networks.

 

[lowkeyoperations]

i dont own tesla.

You don’t need to.
But if you are trying to recreate the experience of a $30k car audio installation then this is as close as you will get. Not by using bookshelf speakers.

Headphones with software emulated spaces based on sampling the original audio spaces. A bit like reverb impulse responses I guess.
Add a body subwoofer and not only will you hear what it sounds like but also feel it.

Check it out at Slate Digital and Subpac. Will cost you about $1000.

 

[Deleted member 51459]

You don’t need to.
But if you are trying to recreate the experience of a $30k car audio installation then this is as close as you will get. Not by using bookshelf speakers.

Headphones with software emulated spaces based on sampling the original audio spaces. A bit like reverb impulse responses I guess.
Add a body subwoofer and not only will you hear what it sounds like but also feel it.

Check it out at Slate Digital and Subpac. Will cost you about $1000.

mark levinson package on lexus costed around 1380$ i just verified.
i cant buy these in my country no dealership , and i already sold my high end senhaiser headphones, i am into speakers now no need to return back...
i listen to headphones all day at work......
i use cheap apple headphones for 5$ with cable... nothing fancy .
thats why i have speakers when not at work to relax.

 

[Galliardist]

i think you miss understand,
all of these fake shops
are most of them online ,if they have physical presense they got 0000 products, where is the point i cant try or test any of the products its useless.


yes they can make special order in case i decide to blind buy it.
I already blind bought kef r3 and nad m33 and i dont thinks thats good or wise.

Again i will summarize it i just spoke with these fake genelec shops
they have 0000 products and they have not ordered them for long long time so i dont expect any good or decent service from them.
i can became fake genelec dealer too i simply need a web site, they even dont know if they can order me products thats how good are they and when i asked them about that brand they told me - that i probably mistaken them so they are not knowing that they are selling them such a shame.
Thats why i go focal and kef because they have better dealership networks.

I'm not totally sure about this, though I've seen your point online.

I've done a bit more searching. Something is definitely going on with Genelec distribution in your country. The Genelec website is listing these "new dealers": but Audio Technica Europe also claim to be distributing Genelec products, and show only two dealers, Audio Arte and Dynacord.

There is an enquiry form on the Audio Technica page:

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwiqmJjEx7f6AhWWwKACHe4vA7AQFnoECC8QAQ&url=https%3A%2F%2Fdistribution.audio-technica.eu%2Fce%2Fgenelec%2Fgenelec-where-to-buy%2F&usg=AOvVaw3J6IHPTmCt5iWLHmPaa_hC

Excuse the google search result which is the only way to select the Genelec tab there.

I suggest you make a polite but firmly worded enquiry on that page to find out what is happening. The local Audio Technica office for you appears to be in Hungary but there is a name of a local representative on the linked page.

My guess is that Genelec are "improving" their distribution and that those new dealers have just been appointed. But I do get that the default for you is not much product either in stock or available for audition.

It might not hurt to visit one of the stores and see what they DO have for display or demonstration because it seems you may never have heard a good system in operation, regardless of if they have the items you're trying to find. Audio Arte do appear to at least resemble what the rest of the world thinks of as a hifi dealer from their website and other mentions, and their website suggests some items are in stock.

 

[Deleted member 51459]

All of these dealerships i have spoken over the phone , they claim to represent multiple brands , i also contacted 1 dealer ship represent revel speakers they in usa price for speakers is 2000$ in my country they want 6000$ for same speakers other dealerships in Europe doesnt make such insane mark up 3x same story with above dealers they have 000 stock and they want for me money to order , with 3 tomes more mark up . Thats fake dealerships representatives / there is a suggested retail price they doesnt care.

i will stick to Kef and. focal their representatives here doesnt do 3 times more. Mark up
for 6000$ i can get kanta or sopra from focal instead of low end revel speakers and wait for them months.
its not normal to have suggested retail price or 2000€ /$ for usa and europe and some "stealership" try to rip me off even nad have suggested retail price.

in bg national salary is 300$ guess how many people will buy these markes up speakers zero.
i can became with my own small company dealership as well i can ask for my contacts to be written over most famous brands.

Thats not real dealerships .
i have been abroad in real dealerships they have good mood and many products so i can try and test , and even they doesnt mark up 3 times... more than retail price.

 

[YSC]

i sold my headphones i will no go back i am with big bookshelves now.


i think you miss understand,
all of these fake shops
are most of them online ,if they have physical presense they got 0000 products, where is the point i cant try or test any of the products its useless.


yes they can make special order in case i decide to blind buy it.
I already blind bought kef r3 and nad m33 and i dont thinks thats good or wise.

did you try use DIRAC with the included mic to calibrate your R3? if you refuse to get anything to tame the lower mids and bass, it's near impossible we can suggest anything meaningful to you with improvement.

All of these dealerships i have spoken over the phone , they claim to represent multiple brands , i also contacted 1 dealer ship represent revel speakers they in usa price for speakers is 2000$ in my country they want 6000$ for same speakers other dealerships in Europe doesnt make such insane mark up 3x same story with above dealers they have 000 stock and they want for me money to order , with 3 tomes more mark up . Thats fake dealerships representatives / there is a suggested retail price they doesnt care.

i will stick to Kef and. focal their representatives here doesnt do 3 times more. Mark up
for 6000$ i can get kanta or sopra from focal instead of low end revel speakers and wait for them months.
its not normal to have suggested retail price or 2000€ /$ for usa and europe and some "stealership" try to rip me off even nad have suggested retail price.

in bg national salary is 300$ guess how many people will buy these markes up speakers zero.
i can became with my own small company dealership as well i can ask for my contacts to be written over most famous brands.

Thats not real dealerships .
i have been abroad in real dealerships they have good mood and many products so i can try and test , and even they doesnt mark up 3 times... more than retail price.

well it's fine if you find them unbelievable or priced ridiculously, just to say, the Focal will very likely sound similar to the R3 than differ, it's your (or your company) money, if purchasing makes you happy, just go on, but I don't think not trying to measure and see what's the in room response look like won't possibly give any meaningful suggestion.

 

[Deleted member 51459]

did you try use DIRAC with the included mic to calibrate your R3? if you refuse to get anything to tame the lower mids and bass, it's near impossible we can suggest anything meaningful to you with improvement.

well it's fine if you find them unbelievable or priced ridiculously, just to say, the Focal will very likely sound similar to the R3 than differ, it's your (or your company) money, if purchasing makes you happy, just go on, but I don't think not trying to measure and see what's the in room response look like won't possibly give any meaningful suggestion.

Nad m33 will arrive tomorrow if the shipping company doesnt scam me,
as soona s its arrive i will implement and do dirac, calibration of course.


About Focal, if i go with Sopra or kanta or focal studio speakers with beryllium tweeters will i receive more noticeble upgrade difference?

i have new player in the town
Bowers and wilkinsons
they are extremely popular in my country and in Europe,
main stream brand, high end
what series i should look 800 or 700 or something else are they much better than kef r3?

 

[Galliardist]

All of these dealerships i have spoken over the phone , they claim to represent multiple brands , i also contacted 1 dealer ship represent revel speakers they in usa price for speakers is 2000$ in my country they want 6000$ for same speakers other dealerships in Europe doesnt make such insane mark up 3x same story with above dealers they have 000 stock and they want for me money to order , with 3 tomes more mark up . Thats fake dealerships representatives / there is a suggested retail price they doesnt care.

i will stick to Kef and. focal their representatives here doesnt do 3 times more. Mark up
for 6000$ i can get kanta or sopra from focal instead of low end revel speakers and wait for them months.
its not normal to have suggested retail price or 2000€ /$ for usa and europe and some "stealership" try to rip me off even nad have suggested retail price.

in bg national salary is 300$ guess how many people will buy these markes up speakers zero.
i can became with my own small company dealership as well i can ask for my contacts to be written over most famous brands.

Thats not real dealerships .
i have been abroad in real dealerships they have good mood and many products so i can try and test , and even they doesnt mark up 3 times... more than retail price.

Here in Australia, dealer stock and availability of new items was incredibly bad during Covid and still hasn't recovered.
And we pay higher prices than you do, full retail, if you convert into US dollars: for the items on the Audio Arte website, at least.
It doesn't turn our longer standing dealerships into "fakes" though. We are used to distribution politics and sudden changes in which dealers stock what. It seems that has driven a lot of people away from bricks and mortar stores and in turn made them a bit more focused on what they do.

One thing about the Western world these days is that there is in every country a sufficient class of people to buy high end products despite what the average worker gets. Clearly, you are one of that group in your country for now. I met at shows, a lot of people in the UK who had cheap equipment, and saved up for that big upgrade in their 50s when the kids left home, and that used to be a large chunk of the higher end of the market. It seems their equivalent these days is not in the high end but the vintage market, which is why the price for older used goods has gone up so much in recent years.

I know I keep saying this, but you really need to visit some of these stores and audition what they do have. They probably have stock of a small number of products and push people into buying what they have (it gives you the chance to hear some decent stereo, though), and I do wonder from experience here whether getting to know the people in the physical store over a few visits may get you over the line for discounted prices. And remember, if everyone who is buying in those stores is like you, only doing it to claim against tax, they will quite happily charge whatever they can get away with to the government!

One more thing. Don't equate price with quality. Another lesson you can learn by reading here.

 

[Deleted member 51459]

Here in Australia, dealer stock and availability of new items was incredibly bad during Covid and still hasn't recovered.
And we pay higher prices than you do, full retail, if you convert into US dollars: for the items on the Audio Arte website, at least.
It doesn't turn our longer standing dealerships into "fakes" though. We are used to distribution politics and sudden changes in which dealers stock what. It seems that has driven a lot of people away from bricks and mortar stores and in turn made them a bit more focused on what they do.

One thing about the Western world these days is that there is in every country a sufficient class of people to buy high end products despite what the average worker gets. Clearly, you are one of that group in your country for now. I met at shows, a lot of people in the UK who had cheap equipment, and saved up for that big upgrade in their 50s when the kids left home, and that used to be a large chunk of the higher end of the market. It seems their equivalent these days is not in the high end but the vintage market, which is why the price for older used goods has gone up so much in recent years.

I know I keep saying this, but you really need to visit some of these stores and audition what they do have. They probably have stock of a small number of products and push people into buying what they have (it gives you the chance to hear some decent stereo, though), and I do wonder from experience here whether getting to know the people in the physical store over a few visits may get you over the line for discounted prices. And remember, if everyone who is buying in those stores is like you, only doing it to claim against tax, they will quite happily charge whatever they can get away with to the government!

One more thing. Don't equate price with quality. Another lesson you can learn by reading here.

bulgarian national salary is around 300$
so i dont agree with you.
What is the current national minimum wage? From 1 July 2022, the national minimum wage is $21.38 per hour or $812.60 per 38 hour week (before tax) - thats what i got from google for australia much better .
Also arte doesnt have most things are missing, and no clue about delevery so i avoid them.

I am not an ordinary worked i am company owner founder and i work every single day without a day off... to be able to afford these chinese junks.
and i still live in rented small basemant, not even my own apartament and i drive my cars very rarely...
my bills also sky rocketed for example before 1 year my electiricy bill was 10-20$ , now its 100$ only electricity.. just an example.
i never been in audio show and i never been in uk as well.
i personally already visited several stores in my own country, their representative are not up to the job, i asked them difference between non existing focal they sale,
they told me that they have so many difference that they cant explain or something...
but in reality they are same only their design is different and different price point this is what i understand from their specs sheets.
About writing as expense to company - i will find that out in 2 years time,
so pay full amount including vats and everything, if they dont like it they can deny it.
So i already payed full amount of money no matter what, same story for kef 3 for kef i bought them as private person non company so i payed lots of import taxes expensive shipping and taxes and even if i sale them its not a good deal for me i will probably loose some money.
if not 50% or more.

 

[DMill]

I won’t touch on European politics. I have no clue and it’s not for this forum. @bladest B&W speakers seem like a bad idea to me. But hear them if you can. Perhaps you will like them. They tend to measure a bit bright in treble but not all models have been 3rd party tested. I think most members here would choose your KEFs. That said, the are good looking speakers that have resale value. And I’ve had a pair of old CM4s and they certainly were lively fun, but not perfect in my room.

 

[Deleted member 51459]

I won’t touch on European politics. I have no clue and it’s not for this forum. @bladest B&W speakers seem like a bad idea to me. But hear them if you can. Perhaps you will like them. They tend to measure a bit bright in treble but not all models have been 3rd party tested. I think most members here would choose your KEFs. That said, the are good looking speakers that have resale value. And I’ve had a pair of old CM4s and they certainly were lively fun, but not perfect in my room.

So bowers and wilkinsons doesnt have any resale value or ?
i never used any bowers and wilkinsons products but they was before many years installed in premium volvos and jaguars and other cool cars...
may be i will shine with their 700 or 800 series and remember no everyone is audiophile and cant hear and understand everything,

will you choose sopra and kanta number 1 instead of bowers and wilkinsons?


How much better kanta and sonata will be over r3?

10% - 20-50% or more or less?

 

[Galliardist]

bulgarian national salary is around 300$
so i dont agree with you.
What is the current national minimum wage? From 1 July 2022, the national minimum wage is $21.38 per hour or $812.60 per 38 hour week (before tax) - thats what i got from google for australia much better .
Also arte doesnt have most things are missing, and no clue about delevery so i avoid them.

I am not an ordinary worked i am company owner founder and i work every single day without a day off... to be able to afford these chinese junks.
and i still live in rented small basemant, not even my own apartament and i drive my cars very rarely...
my bills also sky rocketed for example before 1 year my electiricy bill was 10-20$ , now its 100$ only electricity.. just an example.
i never been in audio show and i never been in uk as well.
i personally already visited several stores in my own country, their representative are not up to the job, i asked them difference between non existing focal they sale,
they told me that they have so many difference that they cant explain or something...
but in reality they are same only their design is different and different price point this is what i understand from their specs sheets.
About writing as expense to company - i will find that out in 2 years time,
so pay full amount including vats and everything, if they dont like it they can deny it.
So i already payed full amount of money no matter what, same story for kef 3 for kef i bought them as private person non company so i payed lots of import taxes expensive shipping and taxes and even if i sale them its not a good deal for me i will probably loose some money.
if not 50% or more.

Of course, prices and wages vary by country. In some countries prices will be higher and more affordable to people at the same time.
We totally understand electricity bills here in Sydney. When I first arrived from the UK electricity was far cheaper here - maybe a third of UK price. In 2017 our bill here was twice that of my sister's and we use way less power. Of course the Ukraine situation has thrown prices everywhere even higher.

The best way to approach a dealer in my experience is quietly - ask what they have, let them do their demo, deal on their own terms to start off with. One of the problems with hifi is that because markups can be high on pricey items, they only need to sell to a small percentage of the people who go through the door. There are people here who have worked in the industry, and I'm sure they will tell you that aggressive customers and time-wasters are a lot of the people who walk through the door.

Having said that I've been to a few very bad dealers - like the one who sold the item I was booked to listen to - while I was stood there watching it happen. And the time I got fed up after 45 minutes waiting in the front of the shop for a booked appointment, nobody there, and called them (from their own phone on the counter) to say I was leaving now, thanks. We probably all have stories like this.

The two things that come through from your posts are impatience and frustration. The impatience only you can master. For the frustration, remember that you are asking us to put ourselves in your situation and answer your questions. Maybe you should try imagining yourself in the situation of the people in those stores. I bet they don't like not being able to go out to the back of the store and pull out the product you want to buy, and so on. Get to know them, they probably know more than you think - if not the answers to your direct questions - and they will do more for someone who seems genuinely interested.

 

[Galliardist]

Loving this. Will there be a season 2?

I think the plot twists are used up already

 

[Galliardist]

So bowers and wilkinsons doesnt have any resale value or ?
i never used any bowers and wilkinsons products but they was before many years installed in premium volvos and jaguars and other cool cars...
may be i will shine with their 700 or 800 series and remember no everyone is audiophile and cant hear and understand everything,

will you choose sopra and kanta number 1 instead of bowers and wilkinsons?


How much better kanta and sonata will be over r3?

10% - 20-50% or more or less?

For your desktop application I doubt that any of the Focal speakers you are listing will work. You'll need to be listening from another metre or so further back at least.
I don't really like B&W these days and will leave that to someone else to address.

Some of the speakers you are suggesting now have quite a large footprint so may not fit on your desk well, either.

We've already said that near field monitors are your best bet for a desktop system. You are pulling off in the wrong direction with a lot of these suggestions, I suspect.

And the room plays a big part in speaker sound. So much so that trying to give you percentages won't work. You were told this in detail previously... there is no reason to assume that any of these speakers will work where R3 sounds "horrible". Again address this when you have the M33 and have worked on getting the R3s to work properly.

 

[Deleted member 51459]

i will get nad m33 in 1 hour,
i like focal they are widely available.
same story with kef.