How NOT to set up speakers and room treatment ( Goldensound)

[thewas]

They don't no matter how much you repeat it.

I rather let everyone judge the plots for themselves without any comments needed from my size:

Their directivity front and back are better than the Focals, which weren't an option for the OP in 2023

The Focals are terrible. In 2023, for $20k. Sorry to hear about your soft spot for them, but the off axis coloration flare is reality.

Nope and as said a good loudspeaker in the 90s doesn't become suddenly terrible today.

The Mirage was chosen both for smoother off global off axis and listening test, of which there are none for Focals that you like and defend. So there is zero equivalence.

They are neither smoother, nor were the Focal compared to the Mirage.

I do when its Floyds current speaker OP could have bought, instead of the Focals you like.

Any more than your evasion of year, price, broadband flare being audible and Red Herring of yesteryear.

You introduce the red herring of mixing current Revel with his past Mirage and the ad hominem of me supposedly liking and supporting the Focals which I don't, just to not accept that the designation terrible was not appropriate.

 

[FrankW]

I rather let everyone judge the plots for themselves without any comments needed from my size:

View attachment 289238

Yet your Focal fan biased lines are drawn completely arbitrary and based on defending the Focal. PIR type "fit" lines start well below 300hz and the room is dominating where the M1s have the bipolar measurement cancellation. But of course, we are talking about M1s because you are smokescreening misdirection from your beloved 2023 $20k OP Focals.

You introduce the red herring of mixing current Revel with his past Mirage and the ad hominem of me supposedly liking and supporting the Focals which I don't, just to not accept that the designation terrible was not appropriate.

See your Focal smokescreen beginning here https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/how-not-to-set-up-speakers-and-room-treatment goldensound.45104/page-16#post-1609429

I wouldn't call above polar terrible and I don't think Toole would either

I get that you like Focals, but the data is clear that they are colored form poor off axis, a direct result of placing your bling tweeter on a very wide bling baffle. Of course it looks great to you and OP. That's most likely why both like and he bought.
But that's terrible off axis coloration in 2023. much less for $20k. Sorry.

 

[FrankW]

They are neither smoother, nor were the Focal compared to the Mirage.

The OP chose a terrible off axis colored 2023 $20k loudspeaker when better choices were available

Sorry you are offended as a Focal fan, but the above data speakers for itself.

 

[Rja4000]

Honestly, I think it's wonderful that a passionate 24yo has access to an APX-555B, reasonable and evolving knowledge on how to use it and is reviewing, testing and commenting on a bunch of gear.

He's worked out how to get someone else to pay for it all, has a small legion of followers/sponsors and has an excellent presentation, technical production and the perfect voice for what he is distributing on Youtube.

The interest and pursuit of High Fidelity reproduction going forward (after we are sent to pasture) needs new blood. Nobody is perfect, but I'd rather see him evolve, than some of the other pretenders take over.

I was on the same impression first (I didn't notice his age, but don't care anyway).
And good measurements are interesting anyway.

But what annoyed me is that he is stating some headphones amps sound warm while other sound neutral, while they both measure pretty good... and says measurements explains this.
When I asked which measurements and how (on discord), he never answered.
He is also saying the THX 789 has a lot of TIM which makes it sound harsh... without providing measurements.

So, to me, he seems to have an agenda and to use measurements as a justication.

I may be wrong, and my opinion may evolve.
But I find him quite suspect so far.

 

[thewas]

Yet your Focal fan biased lines are drawn completely arbitrary and based on defending the Focal.

Please feel free to draw your own lines and present them here, I strongly doubt you can manage to make the deviations from the Focal look bigger than the Mirage one neither for small nor for larger angles.

But of course, we are talking about M1s because you are smokescreening misdirection from your beloved 2023 $20k OP Focals.

Once again ad hominem lying as it seems you are running out from facts.

See your Focal smokescreen beginning here https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/how-not-to-set-up-speakers-and-room-treatment goldensound.45104/page-16#post-1609429

What do I have to do with that post??

The OP choose a terrible off axis colored 2023 $20k loudspeaker when better choices were available

That was never the topic of our discussion, also you find them terrible, others don't.

I get that you like Focals, but the data is clear that they are colored form poor off axis, a direct result of placing your bling tweeter on a very wide bling baffle. Of course it looks great to you and OP. That's most likely why both like and he bought.
But that's terrible off axis coloration in 2023. much less for $20k. Sorry.

Sorry you are offended as a Focal fan, but the above data speakers for itself.

For hopefully the last time, neither "I like Focals" nor I am a "Focal fan" but I am capable to differentiate between not great and terrible despite my personal loudspeakers having a much nicer polar. Polarising black and white thinking is one of the biggest problems of our times.

 

[Rja4000]

Not playing your childish misdirection games.

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...atment-goldensound.45104/page-15#post-1609320


The only thing you are capable of is an opinion of the data, based on liking Focals. I let the coloration flare speak for itself. my opinion, for $20k in 2023, its terrible.

Could you please stop this useless argument ?
That's not the topic here, is it ?

 

[thewas]

Not playing your childish misdirection games.

So just childish claims and accusations without facts or proofs.

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...atment-goldensound.45104/page-15#post-1609320

And as said Toole and the NRC blind tests choose in the past the Mirage with not really better polars.

The only thing you are capable of is an opinion of the data, based on liking Focals. I let the coloration flare speak for itself.

I let people the measurements speak for themselves and members conclude themselves what is terrible or not.

 

[mdsimon2]

Not playing your childish misdirection games.

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...atment-goldensound.45104/page-15#post-1609320


The only thing you are capable of is an opinion of the data, based on liking Focals. I let the coloration flare speak for itself. my opinion, for $20k in 2023, its terrible.

Some feedback for you. In general I agree with much of what you post. However your style is so abrasive and condescending I have seriously considered putting you on ignore. I can’t imagine how others who disagree with your opinions feel. You may want to take a friendly approach if you actually want to persuade others.

Michael

 

[FrankW]

That's not the topic here, is it ?

The terrible off axis of thewas fave and OP's beloved Focals are definitely the topic. Just look at all the pillows he was forced to resort to

 

[FrankW]

And as said Toole

^^
Smokescreen.
OP has Focals

 

[thewas]

The terrible off axis of thewas fave and OP's beloved Focals are definitely the topic. Just look at all the pillows he was forced to resort to

Ok, I had asked you several times kindly enough to stop this untrue ad hominem, have reported it now to the moderation.

 

[FrankW]

So just childish claims

Ok, I had asked you several times kindly enough to stop this untrue ad hominem, have reported it now to the moderation.

Great, accuse me of childish, trolling, then run crying to Mods about Ad Hom.
All while zero comments on OP video and innumerable about Toole's 90s speakers

 

[thewas]

Great, accuse me of childish, trolling, then run crying to Mods about Ad Hom.

That you find the reporting rather than the untrue ad hom that caused it as childish says quite a lot...

All while zero comments on OP video

I didn't talk at all on this thread about the video except even a short "While I agree with not few of the things you write", just commented and discussed with you on your designation "terrible" for the Focal, it seems in your anger you aren't able to differentiate such basic things.

 

[Geert]

The terrible off axis of thewas fave and OP's beloved Focals are definitely the topic. Just look at all the pillows he was forced to resort to

Is there any indication in the video of certain room treatments being implemented specifically to deal with the terrible performance of the speakers?

 

[FrankW]

I agree for the price that its not great but as said I personally wouldn't call it absolutely terrible

just commented and discussed with you on your designation "terrible" for the Focal, it seems in your anger you aren't able to differentiate such basic things.

It seems your anger at me opining about your fave Focals morphed from "terrible" to "absolutely" terrible. which I'm sure is what your minds eye saw.
No indication of biases there though

 

[FrankW]

Is there any indication in the video of certain room treatments being implemented specifically to deal with the terrible performance of the speakers?

Pillows everywhere, including on the reproduction room sidewalls, where even the studio guys, when tested blind seldom prefer. Heck, there's even evidence in their own "critical" mixing rooms, they still don't always prefer. Blind.

 

[caught gesture]

This thread is really saddening. Insults been thrown around, ad hominem attacks, it really just beggars belief. I came here for science and the site seems to be degenerating into school yard behaviour. I’d suggest that the moderators close this thread. It is not doing audiosciencereview any favours.

 

[thewas]

It seems your anger at me opining about your fave Focals morphed from "terrible" to "absolutely" terrible. which I'm sure is what your minds eye saw.
No indication of biases there though

The "absolutely" referred to the price as it was a direct answer to this post of yours:

That's a $20k speaker in 2017 $. That's terrible in both that context and the fact one can get much smoother for 1/10th the price.
The baffle shape of the focal is pure marketing engineering, not acoustics. I'll let the good Dr speak for himself.

As a possible misunderstanding I won't have hard feelings on this though.

 

[Matias]

 

[Blockader]

The OP chose a terrible off axis colored 2023 $20k loudspeaker when better choices were available

Sorry you are offended as a Focal fan, but the above data speakers for itself.

those speakers were given to him by Focal for a review.