How many people want a 12-channel or 16-channel DAC? And a 7-channel or 12/16-channel power amplifier?

[dualazmak]

Hello again @Ibanez,

Just for your reference, as I wrote in my post #26, currently I am also interested in MOTU 16A, since at present I am expecting and looking for one DAC unit for simple 16-Ch DAC capability (I will seldom use ADC loop-back mixing and other advanced features, maybe); MOTU 16A is also attractive for me since it uses the newest ESS SABRE32 ULTRA DAC chip (I assume two of it), and the 16-Ch analog outputs are in 1/4" TRS balanced (not in D-SUB25).

As for the digital output band width in USB 2.0 ASIO from my DSP EKIO on Windows 11 Pro into 16-Ch DAC unit,,,

At least in my case, 192 kHz 24 bit 16-Ch should be the maximum, and usually 96 kHz (up to 48 kHz in L&R) 24 bit 16-Ch should be just fine, as I wrote here. I believe, therefore, the bandwidth of the dedicated MOTU USB 2.0 ASIO driver with MOTU 16A should be sufficient enough for me.

I would like to further compare (by web search and your kind info) regarding hardware (DAC chips), sound quality, ASIO driver, software package, availability and sustainability of professional supports and services, etc. between ANTELOPE Orion Studio Synergy Core and MOTU 16A.

 

[Ibanez]

Okey, it's fun to help others.
I am also waiting for antelope to answer.

I can understand that they can be known for the clocks, I believe it was the person behind the company that came up with the great 10M clock, they are known for. And it was way before they switched name to Antelope I believe.

 

[Ibanez]

Motu have great drivers and support of what I had read. Have not tested myself, actually. RME is an alternative but more expensive when line-out channels goes up. And also Universial Audio X16, but that was to expensive even used when I was looking around for alternate to Okto.

Or two Marian Seraph 8 MKII XLR, internal pci-e cards if you want 16 channels.
ESS9028pro chips, if I don't remember wrong. This is also studio cards.
I was actually looking at this card just before I bought OSSC.

 

[Ibanez]

I write it here also
Antelope Orion Studio Synergy Core
uses Cirrus 43198, 2v out according to data sheet.

 

[dualazmak]

Thank you for the info.

I know Cirrus Logic's CS43198 (2V out, though) is the company's flagship 2-Ch DAC chip capable of up to 384 kHz in 32 bit, and also capable of DSD256!

This is my very first time knowing this approach of using multiple flagship 2-Ch DAC chip in multichannel DAC unit or multichannel ADC-DAC audio interface unit.

Your Antelope OSSC's analog out supports 16-Ch, and, therefore, you have at least 8 (or more?) of CS43198 in it. As I pointed before, I believe Antelope fully utilizes its proud clock syncing technology for sync operation of multiple 2-Ch flagship DAC chip in OSSC unit. Really interesting and smart approach for excellent sound quality, I assume.

 

[3ll3d00d]

I use a Motu 1248 (and an rme ff800) and use all 12 channels on it plus adat (to the rme), works fine. I think I have had it for 7 years now, 1 psu failure a few years ago (it used to be in a rack that could get a bit toasty in summer so probably not the ideal setup) but Motu replaced it out of warranty for not that much (not user serviceable like the rme unfortunately). Web UI is convenient and works fine.

 

[dualazmak]

Your Antelope OSSC's analog out supports 16-Ch, and, therefore, you have at least 8 (or more?) of CS43198 in it.

After further carefully looking at front and rear views of Antelope OSSC as well as its spec sheet, I found you have two stereo headphone outputs in front and two sets of L&R mono-TRS monitoring outputs in rear (that can work both in parallel or in A/B mode), in addition to the main 2xD-SUB25 16-Ch analog balanced line out in rear. This means, I assume, you have 2 + 2 + 8 =12 CS43198 DAC chips in it, if all of these 24-Ch can be independently and simultaneously configured.

 

[dualazmak]

I use a Motu 1248 (and an rme ff800) and use all 12 channels on it plus adat (to the rme), works fine.

Thank you for your sharing your actual use experiences with Motu 1248.

When looking at rear view of MOTU 1248, yes, we can see 8 stereo-TRS outs plus 4 monitor TRS outs, and you also have 2 stereo headphone (i.e. 4-Ch) outs in front.
Can you independently and simultaneously configure all of these 16-Ch, including two stereo headphone outs?

If so, I may expect to use, for example, the two headphone outs as further 4 RCA outs using stereoTRS-to-RCA adaptor like DAP Audio's STEREO XCalliber XGA-18. This would be fine enough for our possible feed of super-low Fq channels into RCA-capable active subwoofers (up to 4 units!), I assume. I can expect the same for Antelope OSSC (Orion Studio Synerge Core) which too has two stereo headphone outs in front.

 

[3ll3d00d]

Can you independently and simultaneously configure all of these 16-Ch, including two stereo headphone outs?

yes, they appear in the mixer and can be routed as you like (outputs are the rows, inputs from computer are the columns)

the headphone outputs have different specs though so they are not equivalent to the other outputs.

https://cdn-data.motu.com/manuals/thunderbolt/1248_8M_16A_Switch_User_Guide.pdf

As far as I know these models (1248, 16Ai, 16Ao etc) only really differ in terms of their physical I/O, the internals are the same otherwise.

 

[dualazmak]

Thank you for your kind clarification!

Looks very nice and attractive for me as possible future alternative to my OKTO DAC8PRO. The 12-Ch balanced TRS outs are also preferable at least for me than two of D-SUB25-to-8-male-XLR adaptor/cable needed for Antelope OSSC.

 

[Ibanez]

I measured the output at XLR pin 2 and 3, from my DB25 to Xlr breakout cable.
I played 1khz @ Max volume on line-outs in Antelope console and max volume in JRiver.

20 dBu 6.8v
19 dBu 6.06v
18 dBu 5.4v
17 dBu 4.8v
16 dBu 4.28v
15 dBu 3.8v
14dBu 3.39v

If that was of any interest for anyone considering buying Antelope Orion Studio Synergy Core, or any other Orion32 Gen3/4, I assume it's the same on those devices. And probably on all other Antelopes gear, like ZEN Go, Discrete, and the rest.

Track used was, IASCA Setup & Test CD 1995 Track 94 1kHz@0dbfs

 

[Keith_W]

I own a Merging NADAC 8 channel DAC, but I am thinking of adding more channels. The NADAC does not allow you to do this, so I will probably move to a pro audio interface. I have some trouble deciding between Merging and Antelope. I like Merging because of the convenience of Ravenna - I can run a network cable from the PC to the DAC rather than a long USB cable with all the problems you get with long USB cables (dropout, etc). Also, I like the Merging driver, particularly MAD (Merging Audio Device) which accepts WASAPI or ASIO which is a very convenient feature. I know nothing about Antelope - would you be able to comment on connectivity options and what you think of the driver?

 

[Ibanez]

OSSC will have 16 line-out DB25, Monitor 1/2 seperate dacs + 2 headphones.
Total 24 out if not mistaken.
Monitor 1/2 is unbalanced out as have understand it.
And ADAT is also aviable, but with limitations as usual if 192/24 is a must.

 

[Ibanez]

I own a Merging NADAC 8 channel DAC, but I am thinking of adding more channels. The NADAC does not allow you to do this, so I will probably move to a pro audio interface. I have some trouble deciding between Merging and Antelope. I like Merging because of the convenience of Ravenna - I can run a network cable from the PC to the DAC rather than a long USB cable with all the problems you get with long USB cables (dropout, etc). Also, I like the Merging driver, particularly MAD (Merging Audio Device) which accepts WASAPI or ASIO which is a very convenient feature. I know nothing about Antelope - would you be able to comment on connectivity options and what you think of the driver?

If I could afford it, I would take Merging Horus, plenty of slots to put da or ad cards into. Then I would go for Hapi Mk2.
Then Antelope for channel / price and really good perfomance
I like the sound from my Antelope OSSC, very much I must admit. I found OSSC at an good secondhand price, Merging Hapi is harder to find second hand at a good price.
And for DACs /ADCs, most of them use ESS (Motu, RME, Marian, Merging, Universial Audio) in different implementations,
Antelope uses Cirrus 43198 in most cases I belive, and AKM as ADC.

Drivers are solid in this form of user case, as pure multichannel dac. I haven't had any issues with drivers, except my own faulty config in Jriver. But aside from that it's rock solid for me.

 

[dualazmak]

I measured the output at XLR pin 2 and 3, from my DB25 to Xlr breakout cable.
I played 1khz @ Max volume on line-outs in Antelope console and max volume in JRiver.

20 dBu 6.8v
19 dBu 6.06v
18 dBu 5.4v
17 dBu 4.8v
16 dBu 4.28v
15 dBu 3.8v
14dBu 3.39v

If that was of any interest for anyone considering buying Antelope Orion Studio Synergy Core, or any other Orion32 Gen3/4, I assume it's the same on those devices. And probably on all other Antelopes gear, like ZEN Go, Discrete, and the rest.

Track used was, IASCA Setup & Test CD 1995 Track 94 1kHz@0dbfs

Thank you for the in-depth information.
As well expected, Antelope has excellent tuning at preamp section after the Cirrus Logic's CS43198 (2V out).

 

[dualazmak]

Also, I like the Merging driver, particularly MAD (Merging Audio Device) which accepts WASAPI or ASIO which is a very convenient feature.

I am still in learning stage on Ravenna (free open source platform); I fully agree with you the nice aspect of MAD accepting WASAPI or ASIO through a network cable with minimal latency and no dropout.

If I could afford it, I would take Merging Horus, plenty of slots to put da or ad cards into. Then I would go for Hapi Mk2.

I also agree; I also would like go into this direction on Ravenna platform only if I have no restriction on budgets and WAF (wife acceptance factor), which seems to be almost impossible at present, at least...

 

[dualazmak]

As for Merging Technology HAPI MkII and its DA option board DA8 (IOM-H-DA8) / DA8P (IOM-H-DA8P), a PDF document from the dealer in Japan (DSP Japan Co. Ltd.) tells that they now use ESS ES9028PRO chip; (the same in OKTO DAC8PRO which I use now.)
http://dspj.co.jp/products/merging/download/New version of DA8_DA8P module.pdf

 

[dualazmak]

At least in Japan, MOTU 16A is out of the stock at all of the dealers/distributors, and I wonder why; is MOTU planning new version of 16A with two chip of ESS ES9028S or ES9038S (instead of present ES9016 [or ES9018] C370 Sabre 32 Ultra)?

I registered my membership, therefore, at MOTU HQ web site and send my inquiry on the customer service web page. They quickly and kindly responded informing as "The 16A has been affected by the international chip shortage still going on. We do not have any information about renewal/update to this unit. We appreciate your patience in this regard."

 

[pablolie]

I am good with 2:1 and room correction with good measurements. Even that very basic requirement doesnt provide enough choice these days.

 

[dualazmak]

OSSC will have 16 line-out DB25, Monitor 1/2 seperate dacs + 2 headphones.
Total 24 out if not mistaken.
Monitor 1/2 is unbalanced out as have understand it.
And ADAT is also aviable, but with limitations as usual if 192/24 is a must.

Hello again @Ibanez,

I have been still much impressed by the design and software concept of ANTELOPE Orion Studio Synergy Core (OSSC) and Orion 32+ Gen3 (O32G3), especially the use of 12 (twelve!) of Cirrus Logics flagship 2-channel DAC chip CS43198 for total 24-Ch output by fully utilizing Antelope's traditional and proud (world-top-class?) clocking technology.

The Antelope's design concept would be greatly different from other major multichannel DAC-ADC manufacturers (MOTU, REM, Focusrite, TASCAM, et. al., and even Merging Technology); they use ESS or AKM multichannel DAC chips (usually 8-Ch per chip) for their multichannel DAC-ADC units.

And, as we know well, Antelope has been accumulating their SOTA technologies in audio clocking field becoming one of the world-leaders; I assume the combination of their clocking technology and one-flagship-DAC-chip-per-2-Ch design would effectively contribute excellent HiFi sound quality of all the DAC output channels. This aspect would be really important at least for me since I would like to use multichannel (more than 12-Ch) DAC(-ADC) unit in my home HiFi audio setup. Furthermore, I found on product introduction sites that OSSC and O32G3 can also act as master-clock-generator/distributor of 64-bit acoustically focused clocking, based on their oven-temperature-controlled SOTA crystal oscillator module.

On the other hand, after reviewing (and comparing) products from RME, Focusrite, MOTU, Merging Technology, I feel they would be recently much focusing on professional multi-I/O low-latency application such as live electric/electronic music concerts and/or hall sound remote organization/manipulation through the digital I/O over ethernet such as AVB, Dante, Ravenna. The selection of DAC chip in their products, however, looks still remaining in utilization of multichannel DAC chips like ES9016 (or 9018) C370 Sabre 32, ES9028S, ES90318S.

Of course I know well, that the output sound quality of these ESS DAC chips have already reached almost a high(est)-plateau HiFi level; actually I now use OKTO DAC8PRO having one ES9028PRO for 8-Ch out with much satisfactions; and the sound quality of DAC unit also depends on PS (capacitors) module and preamp module as well as on PCB design.

Very fortunately, ANTELOPE has fairly nice support and service network/organization (with good reputation) in Japan (the same for MOTU, RME, Focusrite, Merging Technology); and if possible, I would like to arrange my test/comparative session in my home audio setup/environment between Antelope OSSC (or O32G3) and MOTU 16A.

BTW, even quite belated, I also learned that the D-Sub 25 (DB25) analog outputs of OSSC (and other pro-use DAC-ADC) is standardized as called "TASCAM compatible" pin-order for DB25-to-8-male-XLR cables/adaptors widely and reasonably available also in Japan.