How do we perceive “soundstage” and “imaging”?

[thefsb]

Interesting contributions by Harbeth's designer Alan Shaw on soundstage, here: https://www.harbeth.co.uk/usergroup...gineering-irrelevant-or-not.79741/#post-82110

You must be logged-in to do that.

 

[thefsb]

An example of studio recording where the singer is in quite far forward in the sound stage (or what do you think?):

I don't have Spotify. If you can identify the recording some other way, I may be able to find it.

 

[Thomas_A]

I don't have Spotify. If you can identify the recording some other way, I may be able to find it.

tidal.com/browse/track/63485?play=true

Perhaps?

 

[thefsb]

https://www.soundonsound.com/people/van-morrison-moondance

Fascinating.

Also notable: one of the secrets to making really good records is artificial reverb.

"There was some basic equipment in the Studio A control room, including a Fairchild, Altec limiters, Altec EQs, Pultec EQs and some great‑sounding EMT chambers, which is one of the secrets to making really good records."

A memorable moment from Terrastock 5: Ghost were getting ready to play and the audience was ready. The signer asked the sound engineer for more reverb in the vocal. Some way behind me in the audience quipped, "Reverb. The MSG of sound."

 

[thefsb]

tidal.com/browse/track/63485?play=true

Perhaps?

That works.

I don't hear a forwards position but I do hear an unusually effective application of crooner technique. Everything else in the mix is spread, one way or another, to make it sound distributed in space. And then the voice comes in, almost a whisper with extreme close-mic and dead center, minimum reverb. It's very dramatic in contrast to the rest.

I can well believe that the voice appears differently from the rest in your space but I imagine the contrast I mentioned exaggerates the effect.

 

[Thomas_A]

If I compare that to the female voice in the live recording from Cantate Domino (e.g. Cantique de Noel), it is a dramatic difference in the impression in depth. Differences are as you say contrasting music but also microphone setup/distance and echo/reverb.

 

[Snarfie]

If you talk about soundstage imaging are we not talking about more sonical information that some speakers can or can't reveal as simple as that. I had in the past Adams an KRK monitors when compared them to almost 40 year old IMF compact II monitors there was absolute more information regarding timbre in a voice more space between instrument (which creat IMO a more balance sound the band sounds like a band more interaction) an clear voices IMO. My first impression regarding the Adam & KRK's was that voice had a cold basically sounding tr u there nose when i compared them to the IMF monitors. With Full range speakers the difference became even more obvious in basically all aspects especially when using room correction. The Adams and or KRK could not create this depth imaging and more details/information. Also the same with my Vandersteen model 1 speakers comparable to th JK Acoustic Optima 3 full range speakers.. The JK's can't create the depth the Vandersteen can with the result that I can hear more details with the Vandersteen which let me re-discover my music collection.
I see soundstage/imaging as the possibility to hear more information as a result using the same gear between 2 or more speaker brands/types. Taking in account my specific room acoustics so there is some subjectivity.

 

[onion]

When audio is recorded with binaural microphone (placed at the listener's ears), you can move around the room including behind and above the listener. This can include whispering/ singing up close directly into either ear. When this audio is played back via a filter that does interaural cross-talk cancellation, the stereo imaging present at the time of recording is preserved, even if played back through speakers that are in front of the listener.

 

[thefsb]

If I compare that to the female voice in the live recording from Cantate Domino (e.g. Cantique de Noel), it is a dramatic difference in the impression in depth. Differences are as you say contrasting music but also microphone setup/distance and echo/reverb.

There's something similar going on there too. The organ sounds are coming from all over the place and the solo soprano from exactly one.

 

[Thomas_A]

There's something similar going on there too. The organ sounds are coming from all over the place and the solo soprano from exactly one.

Here it is a quite a big difference in the sense of depth. Putting the lights out and listening to the Cantate Domino opens up both width and depth far behind the wall, as a lounge. A close "sound stage" is also from Diana Kralls album Love scenes.

 

[Wombat]

Putting the lights out does not change the source or reproduction condition. Personal perception/imagination influence it seems.

 

[majingotan]

Found a good video that clearly shows two pianos playing side by side. The sound presentation that I subjectively perceive shows that both pianos are 100% distinct sounding coming from left and right channel where Chick Corea's piano is clearly heard coming from the left channel with some crossfeed while Hiromi's on the right. IMO, the sound stage and imaging that is replicated on this recording is spot on

 

[Wombat]

Move your speakers and listening position until the table appears to be the correct size. Mmmm. Maybe there was no table.

 

[Darkweb]

Putting the lights out does not change the source or reproduction condition. Personal perception/imagination influence it seems.

psy·cho·a·cous·tics
/ˌsīkōəˈko͞ostiks/
Learn to pronounce
noun

1. the branch of psychology concerned with the perception of sound and its physiological effects.

 

[majingotan]

Move your speakers and listening position until the table appears to be the correct size. Mmmm. Maybe there was no table.

In fairness, the reverb and other DSP made the illusion that I'm dead center at the front row of the table with some effects showing "depth" perception

 

[Wombat]

psy·cho·a·cous·tics
/ˌsīkōəˈko͞ostiks/
Learn to pronounce
noun

1. the branch of psychology concerned with the perception of sound and its physiological effects.

If turning the lights out changes the spatial perception, then it is in the mind and not the gear and thus not rooted in a physical construct.

Note, I am not saying a spatial perception is not experienced - I have noticed it myself.

 

[Darkweb]

If turning the lights out changes the spatial perception, then it is in the mind and not the gear and thus not rooted in a physical construct.

Note, I am not saying a spatial perception is not experienced - I have noticed it myself.

Understood and I agree, just noting that we are in the "pyschoacoustics" subforum. Perceptions are a given and not a taboo here.

 

[Wombat]

Understood and I agree, just noting that we are in the "pyschoacoustics" subforum. Perceptions are a given and not a taboo here.

I did make that recognition. Unfortunately the postings so far mostly are individual anecdotes.

 

[Thomas_A]

Putting the lights out does not change the source or reproduction condition. Personal perception/imagination influence it seems.

No, did I say that it changed? Putting lights out in both situations is just to better focus on what you are hearing.

 

[Wombat]

No, did I say that it changed? Putting lights out in both situations is just to better focus on what you are hearing in both situations.

You said it opened-up dimensionally. Width and depth specifically.