How can you acquire a quality system for my cafe without breaking the bank?

[Macimilian]

Hello everyone,

Thank you for your attention. I believe this is the right place to get objective advice.

I recently acquired a cafe that came with a Hi-Fi system that does not meet my needs. Our space consists of two separate rooms/areas: one larger room of approximately 100 sqm with four large "disco" speakers in the corners, unevenly distributing the sound, and a smaller space of less than 40 sqm with four car speakers installed in the ceiling. I would like to have separate control over each room, not only for the volume but also for the source. The challenge is that in Croatia, where I am located, a certified limiter that restricts the output to 60 dB must be installed. I have spoken to a few professional companies, but I feel like they are trying to sell me unnecessary equipment. I have also done some independent research, but the options range from a few thousand euros to equipment in the ten thousand range. I even asked ChatGPT for advice and was recommended the Denon AVR-X6700H, which seems like overkill for my needs.

In terms of input/source, we have:
- A TV from which we stream audio for football games, concerts, etc.
- A PC that we use for streaming music from YouTube.
- I also want to have the option for a DJ to connect their equipment.

I would prefer to install ceiling speakers to hide the cabling.

I hope you can recommend a multi-zone amplifier and decent speakers that are cost-effective. Any advice is more than welcome.

Cheers

 

[AlfaNovember]

JBL Commercial has a number of small, flexible amplifiers designed for Cafe and similar small retail use:

https://jblpro.com/en-US/site_elements/csma-application-guide-coffee-shop

JBL Professional CSMA 180/1120

The JBL® CSMA series of Mixer-Amplifiers are a professional tool with a sleek industrial look tha...

jblpro.com

I use the CSA-2120 in my home system. Lab.Gruppen have a similar product line in the LUCIA products. You probably want mono; there's no point in stereo for a widely-dispersed system. Depending on how many speakers are needed to fill the space, a 70V system may be best, although that is beyond my expertise.

I don't know about the 60dB limiter in Croatia - that seems very quiet. I have fond memories of visiting Croatia on my honeymoon years ago, and I recall the soft shuffling sound of thousands of people's feet on the cobbles of old town Dubrovnik, which struck me as a very ancient human sound. It would be a shame to drown that out, so I see the value of such a limit.

edit: corrected link to 'mixer' amps, with multiple inputs.

 

[kemmler3D]

Hello everyone,

Thank you for your attention. I believe this is the right place to get objective advice.

I recently acquired a cafe that came with a Hi-Fi system that does not meet my needs. Our space consists of two separate rooms/areas: one larger room of approximately 100 sqm with four large "disco" speakers in the corners, unevenly distributing the sound, and a smaller space of less than 40 sqm with four car speakers installed in the ceiling. I would like to have separate control over each room, not only for the volume but also for the source. The challenge is that in Croatia, where I am located, a certified limiter that restricts the output to 60 dB must be installed. I have spoken to a few professional companies, but I feel like they are trying to sell me unnecessary equipment. I have also done some independent research, but the options range from a few thousand euros to equipment in the ten thousand range. I even asked ChatGPT for advice and was recommended the Denon AVR-X6700H, which seems like overkill for my needs.

In terms of input/source, we have:
- A TV from which we stream audio for football games, concerts, etc.
- A PC that we use for streaming music from YouTube.
- I also want to have the option for a DJ to connect their equipment.

I would prefer to install ceiling speakers to hide the cabling.

I hope you can recommend a multi-zone amplifier and decent speakers that are cost-effective. Any advice is more than welcome.

Cheers

Wow, 60dB at what distance? That's pretty quiet.

Anyway, I think you should look at the WiiM offerings, as you can run them together or separately as "zones". They're designed for home use but I don't know of a reason you couldn't use them at the cafe. They are only a few hundred EUR at the most and can be controlled from any phone or tablet. The app is pretty good. As a bonus it includes EQ so you can fine-tune the sound a bit without adding extra hardware.

The WiiM Ultra (coming soon) has HDMI Arc input for the TV.

Use the USB input for the PC.

Get a simple DJ / stage mixer for DJs to connect to, run the output of that mixer to the RCA inputs on the WiiM Ultra.

Get a WiiM Pro or Mini for the second room.

Run the outputs of both WiiMs into the limiter(s), which then run into the amplifier. I agree you should be looking at 70V amps just to be conservative, as I don't know how long the cable runs in this space will be, but presumably 10-20m or more.

I think this should work OK. I don't have speaker recommendations but hopefully others do.

 

[Speedskater]

The best plan is to go with a 70 Volt system.

Constant-Voltage Audio Distribution Systems

Constant-Voltage Audio Distribution Systems: 25, 70.7 & 100 Volts

Use a transformer to step-up the power amplifier's output, drive long lines, and use another transformer to step-down the voltage at each loudspeaker.

www.ranecommercial.com

Parts express has many reasonably priced bits & pieces:

Search results for "70V%20commercial"

 

[Macimilian]

Thank you for the advice so far. Just a light correction: It's 65 dB, but I do not say at what distance.

JBL Commercial has a number of small, flexible amplifiers designed for Cafe and similar small retail use:

https://jblpro.com/en-US/site_elements/csma-application-guide-coffee-shop

JBL Professional CSMA 180/1120

The JBL® CSMA series of Mixer-Amplifiers are a professional tool with a sleek industrial look tha...

jblpro.com

I use the CSA-2120 in my home system. Lab.Gruppen have a similar product line in the LUCIA products. You probably want mono; there's no point in stereo for a widely-dispersed system. Depending on how many speakers are needed to fill the space, a 70V system may be best, although that is beyond my expertise.

I don't know about the 60dB limiter in Croatia - that seems very quiet. I have fond memories of visiting Croatia on my honeymoon years ago, and I recall the soft shuffling sound of thousands of people's feet on the cobbles of old town Dubrovnik, which struck me as a very ancient human sound. It would be a shame to drown that out, so I see the value of such a limit.

edit: corrected link to 'mixer' amps, with multiple inputs.

Thank you for the advice. I'm glad you enjoyed Dubrovnik. I went there last May and I always enjoy my time there. After double-checking, I realized that the limit is actually 65 dB, which is not as "loud" as I would like it to be when there are a lot of people around.

 

[Macimilian]

Wow, 60dB at what distance? That's pretty quiet.

Anyway, I think you should look at the WiiM offerings, as you can run them together or separately as "zones". They're designed for home use but I don't know of a reason you couldn't use them at the cafe. They are only a few hundred EUR at the most and can be controlled from any phone or tablet. The app is pretty good. As a bonus it includes EQ so you can fine-tune the sound a bit without adding extra hardware.

The WiiM Ultra (coming soon) has HDMI Arc input for the TV.

Use the USB input for the PC.

Get a simple DJ / stage mixer for DJs to connect to, run the output of that mixer to the RCA inputs on the WiiM Ultra.

Get a WiiM Pro or Mini for the second room.

Run the outputs of both WiiMs into the limiter(s), which then run into the amplifier. I agree you should be looking at 70V amps just to be conservative, as I don't know how long the cable runs in this space will be, but presumably 10-20m or more.

I think this should work OK. I don't have speaker recommendations but hopefully others do.

Hi, thank you for the advice. After double-checking, I realized that the limit is actually 65 dB, but it does not specify the distance or conditions under which they do the measurements. You need to hire a government-certified company anyway to install the limitation. The WiiM products seem worth considering as suggested; thanks for that.

 

[kemmler3D]

it does not specify the distance or conditions under which they do the measurements.

65dB without a distance is actually no better than saying "it must be a bit quiet". Hopefully the inspectors know what they're doing. Good luck with that.