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How About Creating a Modern Cassette Player?

JCM800 said:
Tapes are great fun. Despite what all these negative Nancies say, there’s a small market for something like this (metalheads, punks, experimental underground music fans, etc.).

I may be the only one but I’ve been dreaming of a compact bare bone desktop cassette player for the last few years. 6”x 4” base, a vertical slanted back cassette orientation, no cover, closer to a reel to reel than a Walkman. No bluetooth or digital, just a tiny thing with buttons and two outputs and great specs.

Besides that, I’ll take a look at anything with great specs and a reasonable cost.
Click to expand...
Need a cover, though. (Perhaps removable). Keep the crud in the air out (pollen, etc.). My place is highly filtered and yet...crud that manages to float in the air: still gets into things.
My wife, being allergic to 70% of everything that we have tested her for: is proof whenever she starts having a reaction within our home.
 
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Fosi Audio said:
Hello audiophiles!

We're contemplating venturing into cassette players and would love your input. With many vintage Walkmans becoming hard to repair, niche bands releasing music on tapes, and a steady demand for cassette players, we see an opportunity. However, current models often don't live up to expectations, so we're eager to offer you an alternative.

As you know, cassette player technology from 20 years ago has largely been lost, making production challenging due to scarce core components. We're in the initial stages of defining this product and would greatly value your insights to co-create something special.

After some research, we've developed three concepts and we're curious to know which resonates with you:

1. A focus on playback and sound quality, minimizing other features. We'd concentrate on the mechanical structure and high-quality magnetic heads. Our aim is affordability and a sleek design, creating a dedicated music player without an overload of features.

2. Besides playback and sound quality, we're considering additional features like AIWA-style EQ custom tuning, various sound enhancements (bass, treble), Bluetooth connectivity, and recording capabilities. It might be slightly bulkier and pricier, but the added functionality would enhance its longevity and playability.

3. Alternatively, we could move away from the traditional Walkman model and create a modern, compact cassette deck. This would incorporate Bluetooth transmission, analog-to-digital conversion, and recording functions. If you have more ideas, we're all ears!

Which direction appeals to you most? What price point would you consider reasonable?

Or, just let us know your ideal vision of a cassette player. We're excited to hear from you!
View attachment 345113
Click to expand...

Hello! I know this is from a while ago, but I think this is a wonderful idea, and I hope all the negative people here haven't pushed you to abandon this concept. 1st there is definitely a market for it (again despite what the negative dismissive people who refuse to believe anything outside their own personal tastes will say), (just have a look at the positive response to companies like 'We Are Rewind,' and 'Fiio' making modern cassette players). There's so much to love about tape, many people buy cassettes these days, even if it's just as an easy way to support their favourite artists while at the merch table. The main reason why it hasn't had the same resurgence that vinyl has had yet is largely due to the fact that it's currently really difficult to buy a reliable decent quality tape player. There's a massive lack of accessibility for people who just want a decent player without having to risk a second hand purchase that might not work or pay $1000 for the ultra high-quality vintage tech. (Plus if you do make a tape player, all diy artists everywhere will rejoice, including myself).

In terms of responding to your question in the original post, I think option 1 has the most broad appeal, while option 3 is the one that excites me the most. It would fill my heart with such a deep joy if a project like this ever came to fruition. So I really hope you consider going through with it.

All the best,
Mitch
 
It's not about negativity . the trouble is that's there seem to be no good tape mechanism around anymore ? And the stock of usable tape is equally dire ?

So it cant be done properly unless you set up shop for designing mechanics and tape heads etc and have them built ?
And start producing decent tape again , no small task ?

A cassette tape looks deceivingly simple , but back in the days there where produced on massive scale , hence making them today would be a challenge .

There simply is no point doing this if the results will be atrociously bad .
I'm all for having the tape decks of late 80's and 90's back as a fun item :)

I'm not sure fosi will walk the whole mile to do this properly ? I'm sure they can make a cassette deck of sort , but any old deck found in a thrift store might be a better choice if sound quality is of any concern at all ? The result could be just a toy and nothing more ?
 
Yeah, I do understand, the manufacturing infrastructure that once existed no longer does. I've done quite a bit of research into the topic as it's something I have a strong interest in and really care about. It would definitely require quite the investment and care, and be a challange for sure. But I would fully support any company willing to take on the challenge. I have hope for the future of cassettes, I know they have potential to live a strong healthy life, they just need the investment and willingness to try. And I feel hopeful that even if fosi doesn't, others will. Cause there are many out there who are passionate about tape.
 
MitchClarke19 said:
Yeah, I do understand, the manufacturing infrastructure that once existed no longer does. I've done quite a bit of research into the topic as it's something I have a strong interest in and really care about. It would definitely require quite the investment and care, and be a challange for sure. But I would fully support any company willing to take on the challenge. I have hope for the future of cassettes, I know they have potential to live a strong healthy life, they just need the investment and willingness to try. And I feel hopeful that even if fosi doesn't, others will. Cause there are many out there who are passionate about tape.
Click to expand...
Tape heads...
 
Cassette tapes are for fun, not hi-fi. I'm absolutely not knocking fun, just don't confuse that with hi-fi (which can, of course, also be fun).
Back up any disagreements with evidence, please.
 
It seems to me that this thread has developed into two related, but distinct, discussions:

1. The central question of how a high-quality cassette mechanism might come into existence; and

2. Everything else - features, product design, and so on.

I think it's fine to have fun by talking about item 2 - and after all, Fosi did start this thread to gauge interest in such a product, so that naturally invites discussion on item 2.

But for a community that values fidelity and objectively measurable performance, it seems to me that the most important "feature" is that the product have excellent speed accuracy, frequency response, and wow and flutter performance - and that means that item 1 is the whole ballgame.

On that subject, I will say that there is more than one portable cassette unit on the market now that uses the single in-production mechanism everyone has been talking about, and not all of these units sound the same. Based on YT videos I've seen, the stock mechanism uses a plastic flywheel/capstan assembly, which results in poor speed and wow & flutter performance. At least one company that is selling a portable cassette player substitutes a brass capstan-flywheel, and that unit has audibly less wow and flutter. The playback of that unit also sounds different than one that uses the stock mechanism - the difference is obvious enough that it's easily detectable even in a YT video: one is brighter and clearer with less wow and flutter, and the other is worse on all counts.

So I believe Fosi could potentially produce a better-sounding player even using the currently available mechanism. But it would require modifications and some relatively expensive modifications and component choices - brass capstan, best-quality tape heads, maybe a better or higher quality motor, perhaps more robust power supply and circuitry to enable the use of Type 2 tapes, and so on. And even with all that, there would still be a performance and desirability ceiling because there's only so far that mechanism can take you in terms of fidelity and miniaturization.
 
JeremyFife said:
Cassette tapes are for fun, not hi-fi. I'm absolutely not knocking fun, just don't confuse that with hi-fi (which can, of course, also be fun).
Back up any disagreements with evidence, please.
Click to expand...
Scientific evidence - no but...

While I fully accept that the fidelity of cassettes is objectively poor compared with (say) redbook - i recently, at an audio show with a difference, had an opportunity to listen to music played via a restored Nakamichi Dragon casette deck.

In real world listening (Speakers in a hotel room) I was unable to detect any defects in the sound: No audible noise, no missing high frequencies (limited by my ears to around 13kHz), nor distortion.

I think our lofty goals of perfect digital fidelity are somewhat (for many of us) more than needed.

I'd never buy a cassette player though.
 
EJ3 said:
The Chicken or the Egg came first dilemma.
No need for one without the other.
When one commits, there will be more others & a market will happen.
Click to expand...
True, but making a high quality playback head is a lost art. Very expensive materials and complicated production processes and R&D. Sendust, permalloy, laser amorphous, glass, etc., heads are no longer being produced and the know-how could very well be lost.
 
antcollinet said:
Scientific evidence - no but...

While I fully accept that the fidelity of cassettes is objectively poor compared with (say) redbook - i recently, at an audio show with a difference, had an opportunity to listen to music played via a restored Nakamichi Dragon casette deck.

In real world listening (Speakers in a hotel room) I was unable to detect any defects in the sound: No audible noise, no missing high frequencies (limited by my ears to around 13kHz), nor distortion.

I think our lofty goals of perfect digital fidelity are somewhat (for many of us) more than needed.

I'd never buy a cassette player though.
Click to expand...
I get that - I also think I was a bit grumpy when I posted!
 
RTM has an inexpensive player that can be used on the go, similar to an 80s entry-level Walkman. Wonder how many they are selling?

I still like playing cassettes, have 10 or so mid-range decks in good repair, probably enough that some will survive me...

There's probably going to be an ongoing market for restored higher-end machines from Nakamichi, etc., for audio completists.

My Marantz PMD-502 (circa 2005) is the kind of machine that "should" continue to be made - good features, good value, non-Nakamichi prices. It has ears for rack mounting but I overlook that because it checks all my other boxes. Makes good recordings, real-time counter, auto-bias, auto-reverse mode, etc.
 
Can we separate the tape mech from the tape head? Aren't they two different parts, with the former using the latter?
 
JCM800 said:
Can we separate the tape mech from the tape head? Aren't they two different parts, with the former using the latter?
Click to expand...
Yes. The tape “mech” is usually referred to as the “transport.” Although both are important for different reasons. The mechanism for wow & flutter and the tape head for frequency response and s/n ratio.
 
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