How About Creating a Modern Cassette Player?

[mhardy6647]

Can we separate the tape mech from the tape head? Aren't they two different parts, with the former using the latter?

Sure... but that means "we" have two problems to solve, since currently available options in both cases are extremely limited.


EDIT: It's not like vacuum tubes, you know? Rock musicians didn't keep touring with cassette decks, and the Rooskies didn't keep putting cassette tape drives in their military aircraft for computer program storage in case of nuclear combat.
(or maybe they did? Who knows?!)

 

[EJ3]

True, but making a high quality playback head is a lost art. Very expensive materials and complicated production processes and R&D. Sendust, permalloy, laser amorphous, glass, etc., heads are no longer being produced and the know-how could very well be lost.

Making rockets that could go to the moon was a lost art, too. But a lot of progress has been happening on that front lately.

 

[EJ3]

Say more about this, please.
What do we know now that we didn't know, say, in 1990 about making a small electromagnet?

Perhaps both materials & precision (and probably several other things) that we did not have the capability of back then?
Not that the physics are different (maybe we know more about them, too) but the implementation may well be improved upon (maybe even vastly) 34-35 years later.

 

[MaxwellsEq]

Perhaps both materials & precision (and probably several other things) that we did not have the capability of back then?
Not that the physics are different (maybe we know more about them, too) but the implementation may well be improved upon (maybe even vastly) 34-35 years later.

I used to work on large numbers of pro and semi-pro cassette machines in the heyday of the format. Compared to reel-to-reel heads, even the best were hit and miss from sample to sample (multiple vendors), especially 3-head machines where azimuth tolerance was tricky. They simply are small and tricky to get right. The only reason they were financially viable was because they made in hundreds of thousands. To hit the current market demand, tooling up to make quality heads would be similar to, say, middle of the road cartridges - e.g. about $400 per record/playback head. The sound quality would still be reliably worse than vinyl. It was never HiFi.

 

[EJ3]

I used to work on large numbers of pro and semi-pro cassette machines in the heyday of the format. Compared to reel-to-reel heads, even the best were hit and miss from sample to sample (multiple vendors), especially 3-head machines where azimuth tolerance was tricky. They simply are small and tricky to get right. The only reason they were financially viable was because they made in hundreds of thousands. To hit the current market demand, tooling up to make quality heads would be similar to, say, middle of the road cartridges - e.g. about $400 per record/playback head. The sound quality would still be reliably worse than vinyl. It was never HiFi.

I still have two great working cassette decks (a JVC & a Kenwood) and 2 AKAI reel to reels).
I also worked manufacturing items to specs of less than 1/10,000 of a MM (back in the 1980's).
I don't recall anyone asking about cost or volume/cost relationships.
Just what would need to be done.
It's up to them to figure out whether it is worth while or not.

 

[DMill]

I’m late to the party. But would just say to the OP, How much would it cost if you built a flawless cassette player? Then determine if you think people will cough up the money for it. It’s a very small market I’d think. Without the benefit of market research I can’t say for sure. But my guess is this would be a silly endeavor. The medium is so flawed. I actually see some nostalgia with vinyl, but personally have very few fond memories of cassettes beyond having a pencil handy to roll up the tape my machine just gobbled up. If it was me I’d focus on more forward thinking endeavors.

 

[EJ3]

I’m late to the party. But would just say to the OP, How much would it cost if you built a flawless cassette player? Then determine if you think people will cough up the money for it. It’s a very small market I’d think. Without the benefit of market research I can’t say for sure. But my guess is this would be a silly endeavor. The medium is so flawed. I actually see some nostalgia with vinyl, but personally have very few fond memories of cassettes beyond having a pencil handy to roll up the tape my machine just gobbled up. If it was me I’d focus on more forward thinking endeavors.

Well, for all it's faults (even though I like them, I know that they are not ideal & would never claim that they were), the cassette market is, for some obscure reason, growing.

 

[JCM800]

Yes. The tape “mech” is usually referred to as the “transport.” Although both are important for different reasons. The mechanism for wow & flutter and the tape head for frequency response and s/n ratio.

Are the tape heads also hard to come by these days? I assumed it was just the mech.

 

[EJ3]

Are the tape heads also hard to come by these days? I assumed it was just the mech.

Tape heads wear out from the tape rubbing on them. New old stock of quality tape heads is very difficult to impossible to find.

 

[restorer-john]

Well, for all it's faults (even though I like them, I know that they are not ideal & would never claim that they were), the cassette market is, for some obscure reason, growing.

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[EJ3]

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I bought mine in quantities back in the day:

Maxell XLII (1994) (what the deck was calibrated for)​

Relative bias: (reference)
Relative sensitivity: (reference)
THD @ Dolby level: 0.62%
MOL400(THD=1%) : +1.8dB
MOL400(THD=3%): +5.3dB
MOL1k(THD=3%): +5.5dB
SOL10k: -3.4dB
Bias noise: -54.8dB, -59.2dB(A)
Dynamic range: 64.5dB

 

[restorer-john]

Maxell XLII (1994) (what the deck was calibrated for)

I've got a heap of NOS XLIIs. 100minutes. They did a "bi-centennial 2 pack 2x100" in Australia's bi-centennial year (1988).

 

[EJ3]

I've got a heap of NOS XLIIs. 100minutes. They did a "bi-centennial 2 pack 2x100" in Australia's bi-centennial year (1988).

Are the 100's the same thickness as the 90's?

Maxell XLII (1988)​

Relative bias: 0
Relative sensitivity: +0.5dB
THD at Dolby Level: 0.69%
MOL400(1%): +1.6dB
MOL400(3%): +5.7dB
MOL1k(3%): +5.4dB
SOL10k: -2.6dB
Bias noise: -52.4dB, -56.4dB(A)
Dynamic range: 62.1dB

 

[restorer-john]

I believe so. I’ll dig out one so we can see the diameter of the tape pack. You can compare to yours.

 

[MaxwellsEq]

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[DMill]

Well, for all it's faults (even though I like them, I know that they are not ideal & would never claim that they were), the cassette market is, for some obscure reason, growing.

Crazy isn’t it? At least with vinyl you might get nice artwork and liner notes so I kind kind of get the retro analog vibe of it. Beyond mix tapes to share music, there are very few things I loved about cassettes. That said, I do recall a friend who had a Nakamichi in his VW that sounded pretty great back in the day. But it was most likely the weed.

 

[EERecordist]

I would look into magnetic tape restoration software in the machine with a wifi or bluetooth web gui, and digital out.

 

[EJ3]

Crazy isn’t it? At least with vinyl you might get nice artwork and liner notes so I kind kind of get the retro analog vibe of it. Beyond mix tapes to share music, there are very few things I loved about cassettes. That said, I do recall a friend who had a Nakamichi in his VW that sounded pretty great back in the day. But it was most likely the weed.

The VW was noisy enough that weed or no weed, it didn't matter. My VW's (original style Beetles with 2-3 times a normal Beetles power [and where somewhat noisier than stock]) always had pretty good sound systems in them but the cars were always hot-rodded enough that it was hard for many other high performance to beat them (at least up to 85 MPH).
In my case, I know that it was the VW Beetle's noise floor, weed or no weed.

 

[Smaestro]

Crazy isn’t it? At least with vinyl you might get nice artwork and liner notes so I kind kind of get the retro analog vibe of it.

I think the tapes also give that retro vibe, even though it may be a false retro, as in; none of the people who lived the era long for tapes, but younger people do.

Either way Cassettes have a lot of customisation options.

Cassette booklets can be folded 4 times, giving you 8 sides (of which 1 is the front cover) for artwork and lyrics. The tape cassette can also be printed or cool transparent plastic.

And since tapes are also much cheaper to manufacture (about 4-10 times cheaper), they are a much better merch option for bands.

 

[Mnyb]

Here in Sweden vinyl always outsold pre recorded tapes , only loser’s bought pre recorded tapes

We recorded each others vinyl and taped from live broadcasts. And made mixtapes or taped our own vinyl for the car .
Anyone else used a cassette box as ice scraper on our car windows nowadays I use my Amex card if I’m unprepared and forget to put anything better in the car ..

I’ve always wondered what the f*ck they did back then, if I as a teen recorded a vinyl to tape it sounded better than the corresponding factory made tapes , they always sucked and sounded terrible ?