"Home Theater" Speakers

[cistercian]

Saying this with fists clenched, fuming and ..:

I hate you Guys..

Now You have me tempted. Sight unseen ...

I never wanted to admit that HT and music reproduction have different requirements. I had back in the days 2 different systems, but it was because the family did enjoy movies while I wanted to listen to music ... I believed the 2-ch to be superior, better amp, speakers, and ... cables ... . It could well have been, but now ... I am not so sure ...
I will from that point have 2-systems. One HT based on PA speakers and subwoofers, the JBL SRX 800, foremost in my mind, based on the subjective rave reviews of 2 ASR members who will remain nameless ... The other for music .. we'll see and I will let you know ...

If you do get a pair of 835P's I very much doubt you will return them...I think you may grow to prefer the sound and impact they deliver!

I have wondered when and if audiophiles would "discover" these speakers. They really deliver BIG sound while being detailed
and excellent sounding. For what you get they are a bargain IMO.

 

[cistercian]

Yeah and it’s very opaque as to which product line is the “best”, e.g. their product websites do not make it clear whether the SRX line or PRX line is supposed to have the best sound quality, aside from maybe the price.

And yeah, the price of these combined with the performance I describe above is what is strongly tempting me to buy them for home theater and loud music room duty. I would not be surprised if the JTR’s are better. But for almost half the price of the JTR’s, these JBLs are also fully active and self contained with DSP etc. etc., and as mentioned have more than adequate sound quality for movies and for fun louder music enjoyment.

The SRX are the top line for cabs. I read many pro reviews of the various lines before I bought my passives. Being a fossil, I just wanted solid cabs
and wanted to use my own amp. I figured the posted frequency response by JBL was accurate because it was pro gear and would get called out
if it was not. I looked at getting some Vertec array segments as well but gave up instantly based on the weight, cost, and amp requirements.

 

[FrantzM]

Hi

I believe that the "big" sound comes from the correct reproduction of the mid-bass to low midrange... From say, 100 Hz to 700 Hz. The compromises that have to be made when a 5 inch have to reproduce this important range plus part of the lows (50 to 100 Hz), are numerous in my opinions. DSP came to the rescue and allowed small drivers to perform some neat tricks but a larger driver in a larger front baffle help, may have an intrinsic advantage in the midbass to low-midrange, in term of sheer output and linearity.
I am a complete ignoramus when it comes to speaker design but I do know that a driver starts beaming at frequencies roughly equal to the diameter of the radiating cone, thus any 15 inchers would start beaming around 950 Hz... Thus many 8 to 15 inch drivers are perfectly adequate for that important range ...with adequate linearity and good off-axis response. On the other hand compression drivers can reach rather low and I believe the one used on the JBL M2 for midrange to 20 KHz duties is capable of serious output at 500 Hz . I wouldn't be surprised that the SRX 835P woofer crosses around 500 Hz ... It seems that path is taken by the wonderful ( By most credible accounts) Dutch and Dutch 8 C , the 8" midrange goes from 100 Hz to 1250 Hz .. no puny 5 inchers trying to do the lows, nor puny midrange trying the midband ... A speaker I would like to audition... darn COVID-19!!

 

[Fatsow]

I plan on doing a more detailed subjective review when time allows. However, I wanted to give a quick subjective opinion on The JBL vs JTR. Keep in mind I never had them in my room at the same time and my opinion should not drive your decisions.

I owned the following JTR models:

Quintuple 8
Triple 8
212 HTR (Three way speakers)
S8
215 Reference tower, JTRs top speaker

Overall the JBL SRX835 is better, however, it doesn't play as low. I do consider the SRX to be full range for music. It just hammers 50-200. Something that took me a long time to understand is how important 100-200 area is. We often cross our speakers at 80 and cause all kinds of problems when not done correctly. And I would bet the vast majority are not done correctly. Add in the typical 150 dip when placed in corners.
The reason I went through so many JTRs is because I wanted to love them. They are solid speakers, just not for me. The SRX is better in every way except 2. Doesn't go as deep and the JTR cabinet is much better. The SRX cabinet is built to be light, its a portable pro cabinet. I am considering adding some extra internal bracing. I am not sure if it would be audible though.

And if you want to get extra serious, you can replace the very good compression driver with a truxtent Be diaphragm driver that is reported to be even better. Check out the JBL 4722 thread on AVS.

 

[richard12511]

I plan on doing a more detailed subjective review when time allows. However, I wanted to give a quick subjective opinion on The JBL vs JTR. Keep in mind I never had them in my room at the same time and my opinion should not drive your decisions.

I owned the following JTR models:

Quintuple 8
Triple 8
212 HTR (Three way speakers)
S8
215 Reference tower, JTRs top speaker

Overall the JBL SRX835 is better, however, it doesn't play as low. I do consider the SRX to be full range for music. It just hammers 50-200. Something that took me a long time to understand is how important 100-200 area is. We often cross our speakers at 80 and cause all kinds of problems when not done correctly. And I would bet the vast majority are not done correctly. Add in the typical 150 dip when placed in corners.
The reason I went through so many JTRs is because I wanted to love them. They are solid speakers, just not for me. The SRX is better in every way except 2. Doesn't go as deep and the JTR cabinet is much better. The SRX cabinet is built to be light, its a portable pro cabinet. I am considering adding some extra internal bracing. I am not sure if it would be audible though.

And if you want to get extra serious, you can replace the very good compression driver with a truxtent Be diaphragm driver that is reported to be even better. Check out the JBL 4722 thread on AVS.

Really great to hear from someone who's owned both. Really makes me want to try them myself. If I do buy them, I'll probably look to setup a blind test with myself and some friends. Who knows, if I end up liking the JBLs more, I can switch them with the JTRs and get back quite a bit of money that could go to the 2 channel system I want to build. I still need to do a blind between the Genelec 8030c, Revel M105, and JBL 308, though, so probably a ways off.

 

[Fatsow]

Really great to hear from someone who's owned both. Really makes me want to try them myself. If I do buy them, I'll probably look to setup a blind test with myself and some friends. Who knows, if I end up liking the JBLs more, I can switch them with the JTRs and get back quite a bit of money that could go to the 2 channel system I want to build. I still need to do a blind between the Genelec 8030c, Revel M105, and JBL 308, though, so probably a ways off.

I agree with taking the time to do a blind test, it's really the only way to know for sure. It's a hobby, so have fun with it.

 

[Snoochers]

So if we write off smaller speakers, only include speakers that have A+ spin data, and only include individual speakers that are $1500-2000$ or less, what are we left with for home theater LCR options?

 

[richard12511]

I agree with taking the time to do a blind test, it's really the only way to know for sure. It's a hobby, so have fun with it.

I agree. I love setting up and doing blind tests. My old roommate really got me into it a decade or so ago with beer blind taste tests, and I've been hooked ever since. Audio blind tests are much more work, though, so I haven't done nearly as many of them as I have the beer blind taste tests. One thing that's really been putting off this Genelec/Revel/JBL blind I've been wanting to do is that I don't have a good way of switching between the three quickly. The Revel being passive really complicates things, and the same complication would be present for the JBL/JTR blind, so it may be worth it for me to try to come up with a solution now.

Options I'm considering are:

1. A good switcher. Obviously the best solution, but the cheapest one I've seen is $1,000.
2. DIY. This would be a huge learning curve for me, and I'm not sure I'm confident enough to do it right. Maybe someone on this forum with more expertise would be willing to build something for me for a price?
3. Use different sources. I've got multiple AVRs and/or audio interfaces I can use, and this could make switching very fast, but it complicates things if I want to use subs. Also, I'm sure many subjectivist would complain that their were different electronics used in the pre-chain for each speaker, though this doesn't seem like a huge deal(imo).

 

[Chromatischism]

SRX818SP

It has beastly output but it's a pro audio sub without enough extension for home use. -10 dB at 29 Hz.

 

[MattHooper]

Hi

I believe that the "big" sound comes from the correct reproduction of the mid-bass to low midrange... From say, 100 Hz to 700 Hz. The compromises that have to be made when a 5 inch have to reproduce this important range plus part of the lows (50 to 100 Hz),

Sounds plausible.

But I have a query about the high end of speakers. One of my issues with the presentation of many if not most loudspeakers is that the high frequencies - those up where drum cymbals, chimes, top end acoustic guitar harmonics etc occur, sound "thin." Whether it's a stand mount speaker, or a full range speaker, there can be plenty of richness and size and heft to instruments in the mids on down, but things like rid cymbals and the others I mentioned sound much smaller, tinier, thinner than the real thing, and relative to the rest of the spectrum. Whenever I listen to those objects in real life, I'm struck with how much bigger, rounder, richer they sound.

And this sort of pear shaped sound in terms of richness is as often produced by speakers that measure quite linear in frequency, including upper frequencies, so it doesn't seem to be strictly due to some suckout or whatever.

Whenever I hear something like a ride cymbal actually sound balanced with the rest of the spectrum, with size and heft rather than just a bright little sparkle riding atop the music, my ears perk up. A couple speakers that, for me, did those high frequencies with greater richness were: MBL omnis, Devore O/96, Waveform Mach Solo/17.

Does anyone else perceive this issue, and have any thoughts? Would it be a radiation pattern thing?

 

[Fatsow]

I agree. I love setting up and doing blind tests. My old roommate really got me into it a decade or so ago with beer blind taste tests, and I've been hooked ever since. Audio blind tests are much more work, though, so I haven't done nearly as many of them as I have the beer blind taste tests. One thing that's really been putting off this Genelec/Revel/JBL blind I've been wanting to do is that I don't have a good way of switching between the three quickly. The Revel being passive really complicates things, and the same complication would be present for the JBL/JTR blind, so it may be worth it for me to try to come up with a solution now.

Options I'm considering are:

1. A good switcher. Obviously the best solution, but the cheapest one I've seen is $1,000.
2. DIY. This would be a huge learning curve for me, and I'm not sure I'm confident enough to do it right. Maybe someone on this forum with more expertise would be willing to build something for me for a price?
3. Use different sources. I've got multiple AVRs and/or audio interfaces I can use, and this could make switching very fast, but it complicates things if I want to use subs. Also, I'm sure many subjectivist would complain that their were different electronics used in the pre-chain for each speaker, though this doesn't seem like a huge deal(imo).

I have had the same problem. I am almost certain I saw a good XLR switcher on Sweetwater. I'll look and see if I can find it.

with the XLR switcher it will be possible to switch quickly. I'm thinking we can use the gain on the active speaker to match the passive.

In regards to the Genelec/Revel/JBL, don't let all the negative people bring you down. Set it up the best way you can, for yourself. Have fun and post the results. They can take it or leave it. If they don't like how you did it, then they can get all the speakers and do it themselves. Ignore the negative Nancy's.

 

[Fatsow]

It has beastly output but it's a pro audio sub without enough extension for home use. -10 dB at 29 Hz.

I think in home it would reach 20 Hz no problem. The SRX835 gets down to about 30 Hz in my room.

 

[Chromatischism]

I think in home it would reach 20 Hz no problem. The SRX835 gets down to about 30 Hz in my room.

Still too much roll off. You really want roll off to not begin before 15-20 Hz for theater, and for me at least, music as well.

 

[aac]

1. A good switcher. Obviously the best solution, but the cheapest one I've seen is $1,000.

it can be done by using a multichannel sound card.
You can even randomize if you don't need to put a speaker in another place and just need to switch speakers.

 

[FrantzM]

Still too much roll off. You really want roll off to not begin before 15-20 Hz for theater, and for me at least, music as well.

Hi

Repeating for the 1000th time (or close to ) : Subs are required for Home Theater and Music reproduction. There are rare cases in which you would not need them... but in 98.38% ) of Home situations, in even the most palatial audiophile HTs, you need subs, plural.
Consider this specific sub JBL SRX 828SP sub : Output is stupendous.. Anything capable of 135 dB at 40 Hz , would deafen you at 20 Hz , even with roll off of -10 dB ... That is still 125 dB ... In Room, could be much more, if the walls are still around after the assault ... That kind of output is not in the same zip code as that of Home Audio subwoofers. Price is rather reasonable too: $1200... Placing 3 of those subs in a Home Theater, would afford you a level of headroom that boggles the mind.
We audiophiles, knew or somehow suspected this. This specific thread/discussion is pushing it to the forefront. They are not for everyone, They are Fugly and big.

 

[Chromatischism]

Hi

Repeating for the 1000th time (or close to ) : Subs are required for Home Theater and Music reproduction. There are rare cases in which you would not need them... but in 98.38% ) of Home situations, in even the most palatial audiophile HTs, you need subs, plural.
Consider this specific sub JBL SRX 828SP sub : Output is stupendous.. Anything capable of 135 dB at 40 Hz , would deafen you at 20 Hz , even with roll off of -10 dB ... That is still 125 dB ... In Room, could be much more, if the walls are still around after the assault ... That kind of output is not in the same zip code as that of Home Audio subwoofers. Price is rather reasonable too: $1200... Placing 3 of those subs in a Home Theater, would afford you a level of headroom that boggles the mind.
We audiophiles, knew or somehow suspected this. This specific thread/discussion is pushing it to the forefront. They are not for everyone, They are Fugly and big.

If you are suggesting we could just equalize them flat and have a good bang for the buck, you might be right, but I think we'd want to plot the numbers. They're going to be rolling off pretty hard in the low bass. But I would also suggest that we can do even better with purpose built subs. Commercially we have the HSU VTF-15H Mk2, Monolith 15, Rythmik FV15HP, and others which would give you the output and extension for this purpose for similar cost but much smaller size. In that case, the extra capability of the venue-filling JBLs would go to waste.

 

[FrantzM]

If you are suggesting we could just equalize them flat and have a good bang for the buck, you might be right, but I think we'd want to plot the numbers. They're going to be rolling off pretty hard in the low bass. But I would also suggest that we can do even better with purpose built subs. Commercially we have the HSU VTF-15H Mk2, Monolith 15, Rythmik FV15HP, and others which would give you the output and extension for this purpose for similar cost but much smaller size. In that case, the extra capability of the venue-filling JBLs would go to waste.

None of these are capable of +110 dB plus @ 20 Hz at the Listening positions. Whatever the subwoofer or speakers, smooth low bass requires EQ. Subwoofers with this kind of output ( 141 dB peak !!!! OMG), are prime candidate for EQ.
On top of that, the Home Audio subs you mentioned are more expensive. The proof would be in the measurements, , I haven't see any for the JBL but ...

Pinging Amir and an army of piano movers

A look at data-bass.com and none of the subs you mentioned are capable of such output...

 

[Chromatischism]

None of these are capable of +110 dB plus @ 20 Hz at the Listening positions. Whatever the subwoofer or speakers, smooth low bass requires EQ. Subwoofers with this kind of output ( 141 dB peak !!!! OMG), are prime candidate for EQ.
On top of that, the Home Audio subs you mentioned are more expensive. The proof would be in the measurements, , I haven't see any for the JBL but

107 dB is pretty close. But let's look at the JBL.

I can't tell if the SRX818SP is sealed or vented, but with the size it has to be vented. A sealed 18" would usually be a lot smaller. I'm just not seeing an obvious indication of where the vent is from the pictures.

 

[Kvalsvoll]

Sounds plausible.

But I have a query about the high end of speakers. One of my issues with the presentation of many if not most loudspeakers is that the high frequencies - those up where drum cymbals, chimes, top end acoustic guitar harmonics etc occur, sound "thin." Whether it's a stand mount speaker, or a full range speaker, there can be plenty of richness and size and heft to instruments in the mids on down, but things like rid cymbals and the others I mentioned sound much smaller, tinier, thinner than the real thing, and relative to the rest of the spectrum. Whenever I listen to those objects in real life, I'm struck with how much bigger, rounder, richer they sound.

And this sort of pear shaped sound in terms of richness is as often produced by speakers that measure quite linear in frequency, including upper frequencies, so it doesn't seem to be strictly due to some suckout or whatever.

Whenever I hear something like a ride cymbal actually sound balanced with the rest of the spectrum, with size and heft rather than just a bright little sparkle riding atop the music, my ears perk up. A couple speakers that, for me, did those high frequencies with greater richness were: MBL omnis, Devore O/96, Waveform Mach Solo/17.

Does anyone else perceive this issue, and have any thoughts? Would it be a radiation pattern thing?

Interesting to see that other also have noticed this phenomenon - high frequency instruments do sound more solid and full and BIG on very good speakers, like they do for real.

This is something that matters equally also for music/2-ch.

 

[cistercian]

107 dB is pretty close. But let's look at the JBL.

I can't tell if the SRX818SP is sealed or vented, but with the size it has to be vented. A sealed 18" would usually be a lot smaller. I'm just not seeing an obvious indication of where the vent is from the pictures.

It is slot vented right next to the driver.